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post #151 of 1380

 

 

Quote:

The only trouble I see taking on such mammoth task is that no matter what tips are recommended, people will often prefer this tip over that one - we've seen it on this very thread.

As far as I can remember from all threads I've seen people prefer either comply, silicone, snigle/ double/ tripple flange, Shure olives, etc., etc. Trouble is people's ears & ear canals are different and we all prefer different sound sigs. The perfect mids for me turn out to be the 'in your face mids' to someone else. The piercing highs for some, the heavenly detailed treble to others. The booming/bloated bass may be just perfect for others. Great instrument separation for some becomes too distracting/ analytical for others, and so on.

Then there's the type of music, quality of recording, source, time of day for listening (very often so overlooked by so many), ie there's such a thing as sound/ noise overload, volume preferences and more.

There are so many variables at play here that such a guide, I feel, might end up being somewhat misguided and ultimately may prove futile.

 

Some good points. But when buying "top-tier" IEMs one to another is usually considered a sidestep then a clear "upgrade." Here is when the buyer will hopefully decide which sound signature they prefer and buy accordingly. Once they have said IEM I don't know how much they would want to change the sound signature if that was the premise in purchasing it in the first place. I understand variations and tweaking to achieve an even more refined sound of that sound signature but once you invent in that signature it wouldn't make sense to alter it dramatically (I don't think there has been a tip that has dramatically changed a sig, has there?). There are other IEMs for that.

 

I was thinking more of a database of tips that fit. I see that a lot. "Will this tip X fit on this nozzle Y." "Has anyone tried this tip Y with this IEM Z." etc. Once you establish a group of tips that fit for each 'phone you can maybe poll the users and see which ones they prefer, etc. A general consensus and ranking would be more beneficial and easier on the wallet than throwing a person in a sea of threads and hope they find a tip that will ultimately please them. Or worse, they can discard and negatively brand the IEM because the sound they got wasn't as "marketed." That may close the door to a few potential buyers who based their decision of a few posters who had a bad experience.

 

*Now that I think about it there still is the issue of the tip actually fitting the ear canal. It's really hit and miss here from some. I guess this does prove to be a huge hurdle to jump is someone was to create such a thread. hmm..


Edited by Surreal. - 8/2/10 at 8:38am

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post #152 of 1380

My SM3's are due to arrive on Thursday and I'll finally be able to put my own observations down for all to ignore.

 

OK, this may be the only 'fact' that you'll find me stating:

All IEM's are tip / fit dependent. Whew... that wasn't too difficult.

The basic sound of the IEM will remain constant if the source remains so. The perceived / observed sound of an IEM is significantly dependent on seal, depth, tip material, etc.

 

Since I received my SE535's a few weeks ago I have been experimenting with a variety of tips. I have found some that I can not wear because of my own ear canal / head dynamics (bi or tri-flange), as well as some that are very comfy, provide a great microphonic-free seal, but suck out the highs (Comply). I have tested various tips (including Frankentips of Comply-cores and Monster Super-tip) on not just the 535, but also on the UM2 and E4c.

 

What I have noticed is that for my ears there are some constants. If the Comply tips suck out the highs for one IEM, it did so for all of them. If the Monsters caused microphonics for one, it did so for all, etc.

 

As the type and overall design of the IEM differed (from the angled 535 / UM2 to the straight-in E4c), the only critical variant was the size of the tip due to the insertion depth. With the 535 and UM, I was forced to use a larger tip because insertion depth was shallower than the E4c, on which I was able to use a smaller tip and insert deeper into the canal.

 

All three of these IEM's sounded either excellent, horrible, or somewhere in between depending on the tip/fit. The sound went from AM radio to Wilson Audio just because of the tip/fit. And this happened on all of them.

 

So, yes, I think this is a critical part of the discussion either here (hear?) or another thread, but especially for the those experimenting with IEM's who need to know that the tips shipped with an IEM may or may not be the best for the listener and that there are a myriad of choices out there. Some not only increase or decrease the overall quality of the sound, but can be used to strengthen or weaken a particular part of the sonic spectrum. [ EDIT - Actually I don't think eartips can 'increase the quality' or improve on the raw sound coming out of the IEM. I think that what comes out of the nozzle tip is tuned to what is the best for that IEM, and tips can only allow that sound to be observed as faithfully as possible, or degraded in one way or another. The object being to find a tip that degrades the sound the least. ] Fit/seal is critical, and since we all have different ears and physiognomy, this discussion is separate from, but nonetheless tied to tastes in music or sonic preferences.

 

Anyway, there's my $.02 on this subject...

 

shane


Edited by shane55 - 8/2/10 at 11:40am
post #153 of 1380



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by music_4321 View Post

The only trouble I see taking on such mammoth task is that no matter what tips are recommended, people will often prefer this tip over that one - we've seen it on this very thread.

As far as I can remember from all threads I've seen people prefer either comply, silicone, snigle/ double/ tripple flange, Shure olives, etc., etc. Trouble is people's ears & ear canals are different and we all prefer different sound sigs. The perfect mids for me turn out to be the 'in your face mids' to someone else. The piercing highs for some, the heavenly detailed treble to others. The booming/bloated bass may be just perfect for others. Great instrument separation for some becomes too distracting/ analytical for others, and so on.

Then there's the type of music, quality of recording, source, time of day for listening (very often so overlooked by so many), ie there's such a thing as sound/ noise overload, volume preferences and more.

There are so many variables at play here that such a guide, I feel, might end up being somewhat misguided and ultimately may prove futile.
 


Hey, no worries. Perhaps my post wasn't all that clear in the first place.


Agree.

That's why there is a [need for a] guide. To give people a starting point for making their own choices based on their own observations and experimentations. No one should ever rely on someone else's observations for these kinds of things. As you said... [too] many variables, tastes, etc.

 

Folks should try as many as possible, and see which works best for them. No guide can ever replace that.

 

shane

 

 

Edit: brackets for clarification
 


Edited by shane55 - 8/2/10 at 8:52am
post #154 of 1380
Quote:
Originally Posted by Surreal. View Post

...I was thinking more of a database of tips that fit. I see that a lot. "Will this tip X fit on this nozzle Y." "Has anyone tried this tip Y with this IEM Z." etc...
 

 

Yeah, that would be quite useful.

post #155 of 1380
Thread Starter 


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by violinvirtuoso View Post




If we are talking specifically about universal IEMs, I totally agree. That was the point I was trying to get across. Even with custom tips on every IEM, there is still no ultimate/king of universal IEMs.

 

Rereading my post, I agree it is ambiguous. I'll edit it, to make myself more clear. Sorry for the misunderstanding.


I happen to think that it applies to all earphones - universals and customs, and headphones as well. We're discussing our individual perceptions and preferences here. Some of us might aspire to be as objective as we can in our assessments of the phones that we hear, but it's a subjective exercise in the end. You see it written often enough in these forum threads - "we all hear differently" or "your mileage may vary".

 

The shape of our ears, ear canals and our hearing ranges and tolerances ensure that it is unlikely that two people would hear identically, although we might hear similarly. Then there are the other variables such as the type of dap, whether it is amplified or not, the audio quality of the source material, the recording formats and bit rates, music genres, types of ear tips and how deeply or shallowly they are inserted, even preferred listening levels, that all conspire against us when we attempt to objectively describe how a phone actually sounds, let alone claiming unequivocally that it's "the best".

post #156 of 1380

^ true enough. But that doesn't stop the SM3 being forking brilliant, all the same....
 

post #157 of 1380
Thread Starter 

^ No it doesn't and I believe that it is the best earphone currently available; maybe even forever.

post #158 of 1380
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bennyboy71 View Post

^ true enough. But that doesn't stop the SM3 being forking brilliant, all the same....
 


Though there can almost never be a true definitive king of IEMs for the masses, it is everyone's (on Head-Fi) dream that they will find that definitive king of headphones/IEMs specifically for themselves. It just gets better if multiple people agree.


Edited by violinvirtuoso - 8/2/10 at 9:38am
post #159 of 1380

Oh, easily.  Not just on this planet either.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by iponderous View Post

^ No it doesn't and I believe that it is the best earphone currently available; maybe even forever.


 

post #160 of 1380
Thread Starter 

^ Oh, I should have been clearer. I just assumed that we weren't confining our discussion to Earth.

post #161 of 1380

I recieved an email back from Sensorcom and they stated that the Earplug Store sells their tips. So I have now sent an email to the Earplug Store to see if they carry the double flange tip Bennyboy is using and if not whether they can get it in. If anyone has a need to do noise cancelling and wants these tips you can also get the Alpine Musicsafe Classic Natural Earplug or the Alpine MotoSafe Natural Sound Professional Driver's Ear Plugs both of these are the tips that Bennyboy and Average_Joe have mentioned but they come with special filters for using in noisy environments. I am half tempted to buy two packs and keep one set of tips unmodified with all the filters and use the other set of tips with my SM3. But if they can get in just the tips that would be more cost effective so I will wait until I hear back from them. BTW shipping from the Earplug Store to me was $6, MUCH MORE REASONABLE!

post #162 of 1380

@dweaver

 

We made a page without personal stuff!

post #163 of 1380


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dweaver View Post

I recieved an email back from Sensorcom and they stated that the Earplug Store sells their tips. So I have now sent an email to the Earplug Store to see if they carry the double flange tip Bennyboy is using and if not whether they can get it in. If anyone has a need to do noise cancelling and wants these tips you can also get the Alpine Musicsafe Classic Natural Earplug or the Alpine MotoSafe Natural Sound Professional Driver's Ear Plugs both of these are the tips that Bennyboy and Average_Joe have mentioned but they come with special filters for using in noisy environments. I am half tempted to buy two packs and keep one set of tips unmodified with all the filters and use the other set of tips with my SM3. But if they can get in just the tips that would be more cost effective so I will wait until I hear back from them. BTW shipping from the Earplug Store to me was $6, MUCH MORE REASONABLE!


Too late for that, I'm afraid.

You've joined in too late today. Now the general consensus is that no-one will be getting the SM3s or any other top-tier IEM any more. Current SM3 owners will sell their sets. It's now been agreed that we'll all go back to Apple earbuds. We're currently discussing which tips to use so they sound just like the JH13/ JH16. :)

post #164 of 1380

I know I know!!!!! Whoomps! 

post #165 of 1380

^^ Great find!! They look ideal! Oh...wait a minute...er...you only get 2 pairs? And 2 pairs for £9.95 + £12.00 shipping to Canada + £3.84 (VAT)...er...making a grand total of...£25.79?! For 2 pairs?! I think I'd rather have my earbuds turned into customs.

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