Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Portable Headphones, Earphones and In-Ear Monitors › The All New Earsonics SM3 Appreciation, Discussion and Review Thread!
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

The All New Earsonics SM3 Appreciation, Discussion and Review Thread! - Page 10  

post #136 of 1380
Quote:
Originally Posted by music_4321 View Post

As already pointed out each of the IEM's mentioned is considered 'the best' by some, and some of these people have tried several of them, like me. And yes, only a (very) small percentage of them have custom tips or shells.

 

Re: the cons you list the jury is still out there on the so-called recessed mids. On the other hand, I believe that if the SM3s do not improve with amps I'm sure most people would see that as a big plus, unless you already have an amp and are the type who enjoys using & carrying one around - on the whole I think portable amps are snake oil and not just with the SM3s; my experience was the same with the UM3X, W3 & ES3X, ie NO improvement whatsoever. You did, however, forget to mention the build quality, which does worry me a bit.

 

As for goods from outside the US, I specifically mentioned a few Western European countries and did NOT mention Asia, which obviously a lot of people  - not just in the US, btw - look down on, particularly China.
 

 

One reason I found the UM3X so good was precisely the lack of an initial WOW effect, yet they delivered excellent, understated SQ along the whole frequency range. The treble seemed perfect to me, never being too much, although sounding a little recessed with some poor recordings or older classical recordings. I often thought thank God they don't have more treble as that would have made me sell them very quickly. But, with good recordings, eg from ECM or some remastered music by other labels, the UM3X delivered great sound and to these ears that sound was VERY exciting - exciting in the sense that nothing seemed boosted, not even the mids as some people claim, which to me were the best mids I'd heard. And the instrument separation was quite something else. The UM3X and ES3X have been the only IEM's that are 100% non-fatiguing after extended use. Also, I never found the UM3X as narrow sounding (soundstage) as some claim. Hence my shock after I listened to the IE8s, the claims being the sounstage was much bigger than the UM3X's.

 

I've often (too often, actually) seen people comparing the SQ from a particular IEM equating excellent sound to that heard in live performances. I'm sorry to say but well over half the concerts I've attended - and I've attended quite a few - have suffered from poor, or very poor, sound quality.

 

Anyway, I decided to try the SM3s precisely because they seem to share a few qualities with the UM3X, and I wonder if perhaps the SM3 might even sound a little better.
 


The UM3X only came (don't know if that's still the case) with comply tips, and although some people did try other tips -- I myself preferred the soft silicone Westone/ Shure tips by a long shot -- they didn't seem to try so many as seems the case with the SM3s. And the praise for the UM3X went well over the FOTM period. Perhaps it's a design flaw, after all, or like I said perhaps some people are desperately trying to like the SM3s, and trying to get a different sound, ie not the intended sound Earsonics meant for them.


I believe you meant recessed highs, not mids. AFAIK no one ever claimed the SM3 have recessed mids.

 

Concerning live concerts, I believe it depends on your preferred genres. Classical performances can have wonderful SQ in a suitable venue. Most Jazz and Folk concerts I've been to had pretty good SQ too. Sadly I can't say that for the vast majority of Pop/Rock concerts I've seen.

 

I haven't heard the UM3X, but from what you've posted about their qualities I think you made the right decision, going for the SM3. Hope you'll like them!

Gear mentioned in this thread:

post #137 of 1380


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bennyboy71 View Post

^ How can it be a design flaw? You just need the right tips thats all and Earsonics don't ship them as standard. Nothing more to it than that. The tip goes on the nozzle that goes in your ear. Its not the SM3 thats the variable, its the tip.

 

I'm not trying to get the SM3s to sound any particular way but the best they can.  When Handheld Audio sent me mine, they came with a pair of dual flange silicones that were perfect. I was happy with those until sadly I lost one of them. So as soon as Earsonics made dual flanges available via their website, I of course ordered them.  These turned out to be different to the ones they'd sent before - smaller hole, different size. Didnt sound as good by a long stretch.

 

Now, the Sensorcom tips are the ones that come closest (virtually identical in fact) to that perfect fit and sound quality I first experienced, which is why I recommend them.

 

No idea what the UM3X are like, but who cares what people have done or said about those? Don't take this the wrong way, but you don't even have your SM3s yet, so it might well be you just stick them in your ears and are perfectly content.  Who can say? But if you're not happy with the very limited choice of tips you are provided in the box, there's lots of others you can test out.  The Sensorcom are best to my ears, but surely more advice on whats out there is better than less?


 


I think you're missing the point. Of course I haven't yet tried the SM3s and said so in my original post.

Yes, it's great to have plenty of advice rather than very little or none. But, basically, the point I was making was that if so much 'advice' and experimentation had occurred with other top-tier IEMs, perhaps those IEM's would be regarded as highly as the SM3s. That aspect, the FOTM and the country of origin MIGHT be making the SM3s appear better than they are.

And yes, I'm also aware they may be just right for me with the supplied tips or with the Westone tips I've still got. And yes, they could well become the best universals I've tried from the day I receive them, even.  But the points I made, I believe, still stand.

Also, I'm not so convinced by those who've stated the SM3s are very tip-dependent. I've found that most IEM's I've tried are similarly tip-dependent, meaning they've sounded quite differently depending on which tips I've used. That has certainly been the case with the UM3X, W3, CK10, SE530, IE8 & UE Super fi 5 v2.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by james444 View Post


I believe you meant recessed highs, not mids. AFAIK no one ever claimed the SM3 have recessed mids.

 

Concerning live concerts, I believe it depends on your preferred genres. Classical performances can have wonderful SQ in a suitable venue. Most Jazz and Folk concerts I've been to had pretty good SQ too. Sadly I can't say that for the vast majority of Pop/Rock concerts I've seen.

 

I haven't heard the UM3X, but from what you've posted about their qualities I think you made the right decision, going for the SM3. Hope you'll like them!

 

Yes, I meant recessed highs. :)

And yes, very true, the vast majority of Pop and Rock concerts I've attended have had pretty bad sound. Most jazz, experimental & 'World music' has sounded pretty good live. Unfortunately, for classical I'd say 60% quite good, 40% not so, Mozart's Requiem at the Royal Albert Hall (London) has probably been the worst and I we had very good seats!
 


Edited by music_4321 - 8/2/10 at 6:21am
post #138 of 1380


Sorry - I misunderstood.  Yes, you make a very valid point I think, and one thats occured to me before. At the end of the day, the chain of kit variables doesnt really go

 

source to (amp) to iem to user

 

its actually more like

 

source to (amp) to iem to tips to user

 

Tips can, after all, make a world of difference to the sound you actually get going into your ears, and I think you're right when you imply they can make or break one's perception of an iem.  Its an area where logically an iem manufacturer/supplier should focus a lot of attention, from R&D through to final packaging, but I wonder how much time is actually devoted to it.  Seems to me the ubiquitousness of Comply tips these days probably has more to do with synergising marketing dollars than it does with sound waves.

 

There might actually be a case for a Head-fi tip guide being produced to accompany the various other review guides we have available. I know Joker, Clieos and Average Joe all make a point of examining and talking about tips etc, but it might be useful to have a database of tips and which iems they go best with, and vice versa, for easy reference?

 

Or does such a thing already exist?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by music_4321 View Post


 


I think you're missing the point. Of course I haven't yet tried the SM3s and said so in my original post.

Yes, it's great to have plenty of advice rather than very little or none. But, basically, the point I was making was that if so much 'advice' and experimentation had occurred with other top-tier IEMs, perhaps those IEM's would be regarded as highly as the SM3s. That aspect, the FOTM and the country of origin MIGHT be making the SM3s appear better than they are.

And yes, I'm also aware they may be just right for me with the supplied tips or with the Westone tips I've still got. And yes, they could well become the best universals I've tried from the day I receive them, even.  But the points I made, I believe, still stand.

Also, I'm not so convinced by those who've stated the SM3s are very tip-dependent. I've found that most IEM's I've tried are similarly tip-dependent, meaning they've sounded quite differently depending on which tips I've used. That has certainly been the case with the UM3X, W3, CK10, SE530, IE8 & UE Super fi 5 v2.

 

 

Yes, I meant recessed highs. :)

And yes, very true, the vast majority of Pop and Rock concerts I've attended have had pretty bad sound. Most jazz, experimental & 'World music' has sounded pretty good live. Unfortunately, for classical I'd say 60% quite good, 40% not so, Mozart's Requiem at the Royal Albert Hall (London) has probably been the worst and I we had very good seats!
 


Edited by Bennyboy71 - 8/2/10 at 6:43am
post #139 of 1380

^^ Well, Average_Joe did a pretty impressive job writing the following on the original SM3 thread:

http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/485632/earsonics-sm3-appreciation-discussion-review-thread-technically-best-universal-see-first-post-for-reviews-and-info#post_6592319


Edited by music_4321 - 8/2/10 at 7:01am
post #140 of 1380

yes, I'm aware of that, but thats just his views and is isolated to that thread.  What I had in mind was a cross referenceable database of iems and tips that could involve lots of different views in one place, so users dont have to wade through whole swathes of threads to get at tip info for specific iems.

post #141 of 1380
Quote:
Originally Posted by iponderous View Post

^ There is no "best sounding earphone" per se, only earphones that sound best to you.


If we are talking specifically about universal IEMs, I totally agree. That was the point I was trying to get across. Even with custom tips on every IEM, there is still no ultimate/king of universal IEMs.

 

Rereading my post, I agree it is ambiguous. I'll edit it, to make myself more clear. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

post #142 of 1380
Quote:
Originally Posted by violinvirtuoso View Post

- Forward Mids - actually, you are at the mic position, which seems to be forward more often than not.  I do have several albums where the SM3 is not mid forward to my ears.

-Recessed Treble - Depends on the tips used and what you are comparing it with.  With a shallow insertion and narrow tip tube diameter the treble becomes less.

-Very tip dependant - There are many IEMs that are tip depended: W3, CK10, Copper, and the list goes on.  Some of these IEMs, for example the W3, will be sibiliant if you use the wrong tips.  The SM3 seems to be the opposite, instead of a treble peak, there is treble reduction.  The tips are what completes the acoustic chamber for the IEM and therefore are extremely important for any IEM.

-Doesn't improve greatly from amp (can be pro or con) - In this case, I would say this is a pro as they already sound much better than other IEMs from lower end sources.

-Cable is not detachable - This is a tossup of some have it, some don't.  But the cable is very very good!

 

Is durability still an issue?  That is the higest on my list of weakness if it is still an issue.


IMO, the above "weaknesses" are characteristics of this IEM.  See above.

-

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by music_4321 View Post

^^ Well, Average_Joe did a pretty impressive job writing the following on the original SM3 thread:

http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/485632/earsonics-sm3-appreciation-discussion-review-thread-technically-best-universal-see-first-post-for-reviews-and-info#post_6592319

 

Thanks!
 

post #143 of 1380


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by music_4321 View Post


As already pointed out each of the IEM's mentioned is considered 'the best' by some, and some of these people have tried several of them, like me. And yes, only a (very) small percentage of them have custom tips or shells.

 

Re: the cons you list the jury is still out there on the so-called recessed mids. On the other hand, I believe that if the SM3s do not improve with amps I'm sure most people would see that as a big plus, unless you already have an amp and are the type who enjoys using & carrying one around - on the whole I think portable amps are snake oil and not just with the SM3s; my experience was the same with the UM3X, W3 & ES3X, ie NO improvement whatsoever. You did, however, forget to mention the build quality, which does worry me a bit.

 

As for goods from outside the US, I specifically mentioned a few Western European countries and did NOT mention Asia, which obviously a lot of people  - not just in the US, btw - look down on, particularly China.
 

<Snip>


The UM3X only came (don't know if that's still the case) with comply tips, and although some people did try other tips -- I myself preferred the soft silicone Westone/ Shure tips by a long shot -- they didn't seem to try so many as seems the case with the SM3s. And the praise for the UM3X went well over the FOTM period. Perhaps it's a design flaw, after all, or like I said perhaps some people are desperately trying to like the SM3s, and trying to get a different sound, ie not the intended sound Earsonics meant for them.


That was actually my point, even with the best tips, none of them are the definitive king of (universal) IEMs.

 

About the recessed highs, I was just mentioning cons other people had mentioned. My point was that a FOTM ends when people agree on various bad sides. A number of people agreed on there being slightly recessed highs, so I put it down as a con. I am not saying that there are definitely recessed highs, just that it is a possible con.

 

About amps, that is why I listed it as both a pro and a con. Some people want to be able to improve their listening experience on the go, or in a transportable rig (for hotels, planes, etc.). If they can't readily do that, some may consider that a con. I think not being able to scale up well is a con. I am not saying SM3s don't scale up well, just that it doesn't seem like they scale that much in the portable realm.

 

About snake oil, when I tried out portable amps with my Triple.Fis, I noticed a great improvement. If you didn't notice any improvement with your Westone IEMs, that's fine. Just stating my experiences.

 

I will add build quality to the list. You are right, it is a concern, but not that many people's have broken.

 

Sorry about the Asia talk, those references were uncalled for. I was tired and didn't fully read what you wrote. I'll edit that as well. However my point about rather having stuff made in the US (lower prices, shipping, wait time, etc.) still stands.

 

About the tip design flaw, I remember reading somewhere that the Earsonics SM3 was made to be used with custom tips. They were designed that way.

 

I will edit my post to make it less ambiguous. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

post #144 of 1380
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hero Kid View Post

Seeing all this tip talk has made me wonder... what options do I have here in my draw? Besides some tips that came with my Meelec M6s not many! :/

I'm wondering if anyone has any experience with any of the tips from Sound Earphones? I don't think I'm majorly fussy and looks matter just as much (probably more ) than how they actually sound.

Link for those lazy folks. http://www.soundearphones.com/accessories?v=all

Also could someone give me a photo of the other tips that are currently being shipped with the SM3s? (Besides the Comply ones)

 

Thanks in advance.

 

I will post some pics when mine arrive. They should be coming in some time today (from SoundEarphones). I think on the website it says it comes with silicon tips as well.
 

post #145 of 1380

Cool - be sure to post both pics of the tips, and your preliminary impressions! 

 

Guess we'll be getting some new reviews coming in now Sound Earphones are shipping finally.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by violinvirtuoso View Post

 

I will post some pics when mine arrive. They should be coming in some time today (from SoundEarphones). I think on the website it says it comes with silicon tips as well.
 

post #146 of 1380
Quote:
Originally Posted by music_4321 View Post

 

I think you're missing the point. Of course I haven't yet tried the SM3s and said so in my original post.

Yes, it's great to have plenty of advice rather than very little or none. But, basically, the point I was making was that if so much 'advice' and experimentation had occurred with other top-tier IEMs, perhaps those IEM's would be regarded as highly as the SM3s. That aspect, the FOTM and the country of origin MIGHT be making the SM3s appear better than they are.

Also, I'm not so convinced by those who've stated the SM3s are very tip-dependent. I've found that most IEM's I've tried are similarly tip-dependent, meaning they've sounded quite differently depending on which tips I've used. That has certainly been the case with the UM3X, W3, CK10, SE530, IE8 & UE Super fi 5 v2.

 

<Snip>


I finally see your point. Sorry, I didn't understand what you were driving at earlier. And I agree, I remember reading that someone spent about $80 on tips from Sensorcom. You can get a pair of RE-0s for that price. So, I agree, the tip mania is going a little too far. I will edit that post of mine.

post #147 of 1380
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bennyboy71 View Post

yes, I'm aware of that, but thats just his views and is isolated to that thread.  What I had in mind was a cross referenceable database of iems and tips that could involve lots of different views in one place, so users dont have to wade through whole swathes of threads to get at tip info for specific iems.

 

While it would be something pretty tedious to put together, something like this can be extremely useful. I think no one wants to take on the burden to create the wiki/thread though...  I don't blame them. 
 

post #148 of 1380
Quote:
Originally Posted by average_joe View Post


IMO, the above "weaknesses" are characteristics of this IEM.  See above.

 

Thanks!


I am finally entering semi-hi-fi. Now I have to worry about how well recorded and mastered something is.

 

But, I do agree the mid-forwardness on the song/album. Though it probably isn't actually mid-forwardness (on the part of the SM3), from what I have read, that is what it seems like.

 

I definitely agree with you about the recessed treble being tip-dependent. When I used Comply tips with my Triple.Fis, it made a normally bright headphone sound dark. I was just stating a common concern.

 

I guess the tip dependant thing is a con for IEMs in general. But it is still there for the SM3 (until you get custom tips or a custom remold).

 

I personally agree with the amp-not-needed being a pro, but I know some people (esp. with iMods) will use an amp anyway and will want boosted SQ.

 

I would still like a detachable cable, but I agree it is a great cable.

 

And yes durability is a concern, though only a few have broken. However, this is an issue because not that many have the SM3.

 

Thanks for your response!

post #149 of 1380

^^ Agree about wanting detachable cables. If they introduce an updated SM3 with that option, I'll pick up a pair right away. Oh, and they need to add a couple inches in length from the Y-split up to the earphones. 


Edited by cn11 - 8/2/10 at 7:48am
post #150 of 1380
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bennyboy71 View Post

yes, I'm aware of that, but thats just his views and is isolated to that thread.  What I had in mind was a cross referenceable database of iems and tips that could involve lots of different views in one place, so users dont have to wade through whole swathes of threads to get at tip info for specific iems.


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Surreal. View Post

 

While it would be something pretty tedious to put together, something like this can be extremely useful. I think no one wants to take on the burden to create the wiki/thread though...  I don't blame them. 
 


The only trouble I see taking on such mammoth task is that no matter what tips are recommended, people will often prefer this tip over that one - we've seen it on this very thread.

As far as I can remember from all threads I've seen people prefer either comply, silicone, snigle/ double/ tripple flange, Shure olives, etc., etc. Trouble is people's ears & ear canals are different and we all prefer different sound sigs. The perfect mids for me turn out to be the 'in your face mids' to someone else. The piercing highs for some, the heavenly detailed treble to others. The booming/bloated bass may be just perfect for others. Great instrument separation for some becomes too distracting/ analytical for others, and so on.

Then there's the type of music, quality of recording, source, time of day for listening (very often so overlooked by so many), ie there's such a thing as sound/ noise overload, volume preferences and more.

There are so many variables at play here that such a guide, I feel, might end up being somewhat misguided and ultimately may prove futile.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by violinvirtuoso View Post


I finally see your point. Sorry, I didn't understand what you were driving at earlier. And I agree, I remember reading that someone spent about $80 on tips from Sensorcom. You can get a pair of RE-0s for that price. So, I agree, the tip mania is going a little too far. I will edit that post of mine.


Hey, no worries. Perhaps my post wasn't all that clear in the first place.

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
This thread is locked  

Gear mentioned in this thread:

Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Portable Headphones, Earphones and In-Ear Monitors › The All New Earsonics SM3 Appreciation, Discussion and Review Thread!