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post #121 of 1380

@dweaver: I don't have the SM3 but this might apply. Whenever I've used spacers I would put the core on the nozzle first and then put the tip in. I'm not sure if that's what you are referring to however.

post #122 of 1380
Quote:
Originally Posted by rawrster View Post

@dweaver: I don't have the SM3 but this might apply. Whenever I've used spacers I would put the core on the nozzle first and then put the tip in. I'm not sure if that's what you are referring to however.

x2 and i put the narrow end on the nozzle so the widest end is the end the tip goes on and there is a lip on that end of the comply core so this also helps seal that end .
 

post #123 of 1380
Quote:
Originally Posted by shane55 View Post




Thanks for this...

 

You don't mention anything about increased or decreased microphonics (or bone-transfer noises). Any comment on that?

I have that issue with most flange and silicone-type tips. But like an insane person I keep trying the same types over again expecting different results. 

 

shane


The SM3 doesn't have microphonics for me, nor bone-transferring noises, so they are all the same!  If triple flange tips work for you, I would suggest trying MC triple flange tips, or the ebay equivalent.  #2 for me was the sensorcom tips that are like the now included silicon tips.  The Ety Glider tips aren't all that bad also if you don't like silicon.  Deeper insertion than most other foam but they don't have same composition as the Comply tips, which degrade the treble to my ears.

post #124 of 1380

Thanks for the ideas guys.

 

@Lucozade I tried your method but the tips I'm using a pretty shallow so it doesn't work on those. I will try it on my monster tri flange tip later as that one has more tube to work with.

 

@rawrster, I actually have been leaving the spacer on the nozzle and just switch tips, so good suggestion as well.

 

I may get some silicone glue and actually seal one tip to a spacer and see if it makes any difference in the sound as an experiment. I think I'll test the meelec since I can easily buy more of their tips from their website reasonably.

 

 

OK now for something personal which I would ask NO ONE TO RESPOND TO PLEASE. I would love to see this thread go one whole page without a personal attack, slight, innuendo, or comment about another poster. Come one guys/gals I know we can go one whole page without having to impugn someone elses character or tattle on another poster because we know who they REALLY ARE! Again please do not respond to this comment (if you really feel the need to say something, PM me). I know this is a tall order to ask of everyone but I would love to see at least one whole page stay on topic, we are on head-fi after all, not stuck in a time loop watching an episode of the Bickersons...


Edited by dweaver - 8/1/10 at 4:45pm
post #125 of 1380

Let me start this post by saying that I'm very much looking forward to getting my SM3s - hopefully soon.

However, I can't help thinking that there's far too much talk of tips and mods. I'm wondering if more than a few people are simply desperately trying to like these IEM's because there seems to be some kind of consensus -- mostly by a few select members, some of whom have owned all the latest top-tier IEM's and post far too often round these forum threads -- that these are currently the best sounding universal IEM's.

I don't recall reading so much talk about a zillion tips and mods to try to get the 'best' sound out of the SM3s. Perhaps the same thing happened with the E8s? I didn't follow that thread for a long time as it got, in my view, ridiculously long. Well, after a year and a half I got the IE8s, thought they were very good, but found that some of the claims, namely the HUGE soundstage, to be quite exaggerated. In the end they were not for me.

If the same amount of experimentation had been tried on the UM3X, W3, SE530, TF10s and so on, would they also be regarded as the best sounding IEM's?

Also - and please forgive me for saying this - I think that not only is there an element of FOTM here as so often happens with these new products, but also there's the added element that these come from a relatively unknown company, Earsonics, in France; the fact they're (Western) European, I think, has an added appeal (mostly) for people outside of Western Europe - most people posting here come from the US. I remember when I spent 2 years in Canada (Toronto) and nearly a year in the US, that anything that came from Europe, specially Western Europe, and more specifically Germany, France, The UK, The Nethrerlands, Switzerland, Austria, Belgium & Scandinavia was often seen as better or a must have.

Please keep the flaming as polite as you can if you happen to comment on this post. :)


Edited by music_4321 - 8/1/10 at 5:25pm
post #126 of 1380
Quote:
Originally Posted by music_4321 View Post

Let me start this post by saying that I'm very much looking forward to getting my SM3s - hopefully soon.

However, I can't help thinking that there's far too much talk of tips and mods. I'm wondering if more than a few people are simply desperately trying to like these IEM's because there seems to be some kind of consensus -- mostly by a few select members, some of whom have owned all the latest top-tier IEM's and post far too often round these forum threads -- that these are currently the best sounding universal IEM's.

I don't recall reading so much talk about a zillion tips and mods to try to get the 'best' sound out of the SM3s. Perhaps the same thing happened with the E8s? I didn't follow that thread for a long time as it got, in my view, ridiculously long. Well, after a year and a half I got the IE8s, thought they were very good, but found that some of the claims, namely the HUGE soundstage, to be quite exaggerated. In the end they were not for me.

If the same amount of experimentation had been tried on the UM3X, W3, SE530, TF10s and so on, would they also be regarded as the best sounding IEM's?

Also - and please forgive me for saying this - I think that not only is there an element of FOTM here as so often happens with these new products, but also there's the added element that these come from a relatively unknown company, Earsonics, in France; the fact they're (Western) European, I think, has an added appeal (mostly) for people outside of Western Europe - most people posting here come from the US. I remember when I spent 2 years in Canada (Toronto) and nearly a year in the US, that anything that came from Europe, specially Western Europe, and more specifically Germany, France, The UK, The Nethrerlands, Switzerland, Austria, Belgium & Scandinavia was often seen as better or a must have.

Please keep the flaming as polite as you can if you happen to comment on this post. :)


I take it you ordered from SoundEarphones.com? Mine should be arriving some time tomorrow.

 

What mods? I only have heard of different tips. Please enlighten me!

 

I don't think the UM3X, W3, SE530, TF10, etc. would be considered THE best sounding IEMs. Even with the best tips, I don't think any of them can be counted as a definitive king of universal IEMs.

 

And I can believe that different tips do change the sound signature (how much, I can't say). I do however see your point about the tip mania. It is ridiculous when some people spend $80 on just tips.

 

Though you can disagree, I think the FOTM feeling is wearing off. No offense to early reviewers, but we are now starting to see possible/potential bad points about the SM3. For example:

 

- Forward Mids (depends on song/album and recording/mastering: mic location and stuff affect this)

-Recessed Treble (depends on tip)

-Very tip dependant (this is with IEMs in general)

-Doesn't improve greatly from amp (can be pro or con, for most a pro)

-Cable is not detachable (though it is a great cable)

 

I guess your view of foreign manufacturers is very different then mine. I just like American products because of quicker shipping and lower prices (ex. initially the SM3 was more expensive for Americans than for Europeans).


Edited by violinvirtuoso - 8/2/10 at 9:01am
post #127 of 1380
Thread Starter 


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by violinvirtuoso View Post




I take it you ordered from SoundEarphones.com? Mine should be arriving some time tomorrow.

 

What mods? I only have heard of different tips. Please enlighten me!

 

I don't think the UM3X, W3, SE530, TF10, etc. would be considered the best sounding IEMs. The reason being, many of the people that have these headphones do have a custom remold or custom tips. And I can believe that different tips do change the sound signature (how much, I can't say).

 

Though you can disagree, I think the FOTM feeling is wearing off. No offense to early reviewers, but we are now starting to see bad points about the SM3. For example:

 

- Forward Mids

-Recessed Treble

-Very tip dependant

-Doesn't improve greatly from amp (can be pro or con)

-Cable is not detachable

 

I guess your view of foreign manufacturers is very different then mine. I am American and there is a general sense (in America) that if the product is not made in America (mainly with Asia) that is either poorly made or that the people that are making the product are stealing American jobs. I personally don't feel either way, I just like American products because of quicker shipping and lower prices (ex. initially the SM3 was more expensive for Americans than for Europeans).

 

The earphones you cite are generally regarded as amongst  the "top tier" of universals by many Head-Fiers. The forum threads attest to this. The owners of these phones who are using them with custom tips or having them remolded into customs would be in the minority.
 


Edited by iponderous - 8/1/10 at 7:16pm
post #128 of 1380

@Music_4321, I hear what your saying and can easily see why your thinking that way. The tip talk seems to be endless. But I have to say for me I have been searching for the Holy Grail (that one IEM that just does everything well) and the SM3 is sooooo close for me I can taste it. Thus my willingness to play with tips and even possibly get them customed or custom tipped. But because I am fickle and have changed my mind (a few posters have down right chewed on me because I have flip flopped around in these forums so much, especially with the IE8 which cost me as much as these and consequently I was desperate to like) alot I am glad I won't have the custom kit for a couple weeks. But speaking of the IE8 which I did flip because I just couldn't feel right about them sonically with to much of my music, the only music I have not been happy with using the SM3 has been hard rock bands like AC/DC because their music seems to need some rawness to the sound. Otherwise I would like and have found with wide nozzle tips slightly more treble volume.

 

I still like the MTPC better for AC/DC and also think they do cymbals better than the SM3 but only by a bit and consequently I quickly stop thinking I'm missing something in the treble area and just enjoy the music with the SM3.

 

One thing I do have to echo some other posters on though is the lack of a WOW factor with the SM3. They don't really make me go WOW very often. But when I switch to another headphone/IEM I VERY quickly find myself thinking WOW this isn't right! The MTPC is a good example of an IEM that I found myself getting alot more critical about after I got the SM3, the bass suddenly seemed off, the midrange was not quite right, and the sound stage just feels fake with the MTPC in comparison to the SM3 (almost echo-y). I'm not saying the MTPC is garbage or anything like that as it is will continue to be my backup IEM and goto IEM for some music. But the SM3 just seem to get out of the way of the music and not do anything gimicky so it's easy to under value them until I try something else.

 

Finally I also think the FOTM aspect of these has/is wearing off as mentioned by @violinvirtuoso as noted by his list of areas people have commented negatively on. Personally I think FOTM is only in effect when there nothing but positive comments on a product, when actual users of the product start to mention issues and the weigh scale starts to get more balanced I think the FOTM is starting to leave.


Edited by dweaver - 8/1/10 at 7:18pm
post #129 of 1380
Quote:
Originally Posted by iponderous View Post

The earphones you cite are generally regarded as amongst  the "top tier" of universals by many Head-Fiers. The forum threads attest to this. The owners of these phones who are using them with custom tips or having them remolded into customs would be in the minority.
 


You are right, those IEMs are top-tier. I should know, I owned the Triple.Fis for a while.


What I meant, is although they are all great sounding IEM, none of them is THE best sounding universal IEM. IMO, of course.

post #130 of 1380
Thread Starter 

^ There is no "best sounding earphone" per se, only earphones that sound best to you.

post #131 of 1380

For those who had the SE530 how is the bass in regards to the SM3? 

post #132 of 1380

To the poster who commented on the amount of tip talk around the SM3, I'd say that it might be mostly Earsonic's fault. Their decision to only ship them initially with Comply (aka 'Soundsuck') tips, then recently with Comply and dual flanges that are not all that great means that out of the box, you're not going to be getting the most out of the SM3s....

 

My advice when ordering them is to place an order at the same time for the Sensorcom dual flange silicone tips. All you need do then is trim the stalk, put them on the SM3 nozzles (no spacer needed) and you'll be sweet.

post #133 of 1380
Quote:
Originally Posted by violinvirtuoso View Post

 

...I don't think the UM3X, W3, SE530, TF10, etc. would be considered the best sounding IEMs. The reason being, many of the people that have these headphones do have a custom remold or custom tips. And I can believe that different tips do change the sound signature (how much, I can't say).

 

Though you can disagree, I think the FOTM feeling is wearing off. No offense to early reviewers, but we are now starting to see bad points about the SM3. For example:

 

- Forward Mids

-Recessed Treble

-Very tip dependant

-Doesn't improve greatly from amp (can be pro or con)

-Cable is not detachable

 

I guess your view of foreign manufacturers is very different then mine. I am American and there is a general sense (in America) that if the product is not made in America (mainly with Asia) that is either poorly made or that the people that are making the product are stealing American jobs. I personally don't feel either way, I just like American products because of quicker shipping and lower prices (ex. initially the SM3 was more expensive for Americans than for Europeans).


As already pointed out each of the IEM's mentioned is considered 'the best' by some, and some of these people have tried several of them, like me. And yes, only a (very) small percentage of them have custom tips or shells.

 

Re: the cons you list the jury is still out there on the so-called recessed mids. On the other hand, I believe that if the SM3s do not improve with amps I'm sure most people would see that as a big plus, unless you already have an amp and are the type who enjoys using & carrying one around - on the whole I think portable amps are snake oil and not just with the SM3s; my experience was the same with the UM3X, W3 & ES3X, ie NO improvement whatsoever. You did, however, forget to mention the build quality, which does worry me a bit.

 

As for goods from outside the US, I specifically mentioned a few Western European countries and did NOT mention Asia, which obviously a lot of people  - not just in the US, btw - look down on, particularly China.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dweaver View Post

@Music_4321, I hear what your saying and can easily see why your thinking that way. The tip talk seems to be endless. But I have to say for me I have been searching for the Holy Grail (that one IEM that just does everything well) and the SM3 is sooooo close for me I can taste it. Thus my willingness to play with tips and even possibly get them customed or custom tipped. But because I am fickle and have changed my mind (a few posters have down right chewed on me because I have flip flopped around in these forums so much, especially with the IE8 which cost me as much as these and consequently I was desperate to like) alot I am glad I won't have the custom kit for a couple weeks. But speaking of the IE8 which I did flip because I just couldn't feel right about them sonically with to much of my music, the only music I have not been happy with using the SM3 has been hard rock bands like AC/DC because their music seems to need some rawness to the sound. Otherwise I would like and have found with wide nozzle tips slightly more treble volume.

 

I still like the MTPC better for AC/DC and also think they do cymbals better than the SM3 but only by a bit and consequently I quickly stop thinking I'm missing something in the treble area and just enjoy the music with the SM3.

 

One thing I do have to echo some other posters on though is the lack of a WOW factor with the SM3. They don't really make me go WOW very often. But when I switch to another headphone/IEM I VERY quickly find myself thinking WOW this isn't right! The MTPC is a good example of an IEM that I found myself getting alot more critical about after I got the SM3, the bass suddenly seemed off, the midrange was not quite right, and the sound stage just feels fake with the MTPC in comparison to the SM3 (almost echo-y). I'm not saying the MTPC is garbage or anything like that as it is will continue to be my backup IEM and goto IEM for some music. But the SM3 just seem to get out of the way of the music and not do anything gimicky so it's easy to under value them until I try something else.

 

Finally I also think the FOTM aspect of these has/is wearing off as mentioned by @violinvirtuoso as noted by his list of areas people have commented negatively on. Personally I think FOTM is only in effect when there nothing but positive comments on a product, when actual users of the product start to mention issues and the weigh scale starts to get more balanced I think the FOTM is starting to leave.

 

One reason I found the UM3X so good was precisely the lack of an initial WOW effect, yet they delivered excellent, understated SQ along the whole frequency range. The treble seemed perfect to me, never being too much, although sounding a little recessed with some poor recordings or older classical recordings. I often thought thank God they don't have more treble as that would have made me sell them very quickly. But, with good recordings, eg from ECM or some remastered music by other labels, the UM3X delivered great sound and to these ears that sound was VERY exciting - exciting in the sense that nothing seemed boosted, not even the mids as some people claim, which to me were the best mids I'd heard. And the instrument separation was quite something else. The UM3X and ES3X have been the only IEM's that are 100% non-fatiguing after extended use. Also, I never found the UM3X as narrow sounding (soundstage) as some claim. Hence my shock after I listened to the IE8s, the claims being the sounstage was much bigger than the UM3X's.

 

I've often (too often, actually) seen people comparing the SQ from a particular IEM equating excellent sound to that heard in live performances. I'm sorry to say but well over half the concerts I've attended - and I've attended quite a few - have suffered from poor, or very poor, sound quality.

 

Anyway, I decided to try the SM3s precisely because they seem to share a few qualities with the UM3X, and I wonder if perhaps the SM3 might even sound a little better.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bennyboy71 View Post

To the poster who commented on the amount of tip talk around the SM3, I'd say that it might be mostly Earsonic's fault. Their decision to only ship them initially with Comply (aka 'Soundsuck') tips, then recently with Comply and dual flanges that are not all that great means that out of the box, you're not going to be getting the most out of the SM3s....

 

My advice when ordering them is to place an order at the same time for the Sensorcom dual flange silicone tips. All you need do then is trim the stalk, put them on the SM3 nozzles (no spacer needed) and you'll be sweet.


The UM3X only came (don't know if that's still the case) with comply tips, and although some people did try other tips -- I myself preferred the soft silicone Westone/ Shure tips by a long shot -- they didn't seem to try so many as seems the case with the SM3s. And the praise for the UM3X went well over the FOTM period. Perhaps it's a design flaw, after all, or like I said perhaps some people are desperately trying to like the SM3s, and trying to get a different sound, ie not the intended sound Earsonics meant for them.


Edited by music_4321 - 8/2/10 at 3:54am
post #134 of 1380

^ How can it be a design flaw? You just need the right tips thats all and Earsonics don't ship them as standard. Nothing more to it than that. The tip goes on the nozzle that goes in your ear. Its not the SM3 thats the variable, its the tip.

 

I'm not trying to get the SM3s to sound any particular way but the best they can.  When Handheld Audio sent me mine, they came with a pair of dual flange silicones that were perfect. I was happy with those until sadly I lost one of them. So as soon as Earsonics made dual flanges available via their website, I of course ordered them.  These turned out to be different to the ones they'd sent before - smaller hole, different size. Didnt sound as good by a long stretch.

 

Now, the Sensorcom tips are the ones that come closest (virtually identical in fact) to that perfect fit and sound quality I first experienced, which is why I recommend them.

 

No idea what the UM3X are like, but who cares what people have done or said about those? Don't take this the wrong way, but you don't even have your SM3s yet, so it might well be you just stick them in your ears and are perfectly content.  Who can say? But if you're not happy with the very limited choice of tips you are provided in the box, there's lots of others you can test out.  The Sensorcom are best to my ears, but surely more advice on whats out there is better than less?


 


Edited by Bennyboy71 - 8/2/10 at 4:20am
post #135 of 1380

Seeing all this tip talk has made me wonder... what options do I have here in my draw? Besides some tips that came with my Meelec M6s not many! :/

I'm wondering if anyone has any experience with any of the tips from Sound Earphones? I don't think I'm majorly fussy and looks matter just as much (probably more ) than how they actually sound.

Link for those lazy folks. http://www.soundearphones.com/accessories?v=all

Also could someone give me a photo of the other tips that are currently being shipped with the SM3s? (Besides the Comply ones)

 

Thanks in advance.

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