Is It Really Worth 'Upgrading' Sennheiser HD 580/600/650 Cables? - Page 11

Albedo wrote:

Some companies (like Supra or Mogami) are located in first-world nation and get by without the ridiculous pricing, their no-nonsense professionalism speak for itself and their claims are legit because they are not of the mumbo-jumbo kind. Supra have a staff of fifteen and gets by pretty well and are not shunned because they do deliver on what they are claiming.

If it walks like a duck, if it quacks like a duck...

Not once did you mention business costs, yet now you have a duck.

???

FWIW, I checked both Supra and Mogami websites and neither showed headphone cables for sale in their product mix.  Mogami did have a headphone cable extension but no dedicated headphone cable.  Not saying they don't sell em, just saying that I couldn't find em if they are.

???

Quote:

Originally Posted by beeman458 

Jeff wrote:

 

I want to make a cable that is worse than the stock 650 cable. What materials will be terrible, yet electrically safe?

 

Use Christmas tree light wire.  Cut each of the little colored lights off and twist the bare wire together to make a complete circuit.  Cover the twists with black electrician's tape for safety.  If you wish, just screw a screw into the light socket to complete the circuit and tape the exposed screw for safety purposes.  Strip the wire ends, attach the headphone plug ends by twisting the exposed copper wire together or solder with plumber's roll solder purchased at the local plumbing center.  Cover all exposed copper again with black electrician's tape for safety.  Don't try to cut the wires to make things look pretty.  Just take the wire, lumps, glumps and all.

 

Use of the wrong kind of solder.

 

No shielding or fancy teflon coatings.

 

Semi-exposed wire ends with no EMI/RFI rejection from the light connection ends.

 

Just plain old, cheap azzzzz, thousand mile spooled, coated, stranded pair, copper wire.

 

And probably the wrong wire gage ta boot.

 

I don't think it can get any more "terrible" then that.

Please do this. I just want to see what a monstrosity it is when its finished. 

They don't make headphone cables, AFAIK. They make audio cables to be terminated by someone else, dipped in a bath of magic potion and fairy dust, and sold to people for thousands.

Quote:

Originally Posted by beeman458 

Albedo wrote:

 

Some companies (like Supra or Mogami) are located in first-world nation and get by without the ridiculous pricing, their no-nonsense professionalism speak for itself and their claims are legit because they are not of the mumbo-jumbo kind. Supra have a staff of fifteen and gets by pretty well and are not shunned because they do deliver on what they are claiming.

 

If it walks like a duck, if it quacks like a duck...

 

Not once did you mention business costs, yet now you have a duck.

 

???

 

FWIW, I checked both Supra and Mogami websites and neither showed headphone cables for sale in their product mix.  Mogami did have a headphone cable extension but no dedicated headphone cable.  Not saying they don't sell em, just saying that I couldn't find em if they are.

 

???

revolink24 wrote:

They make audio cables to be terminated by someone else, dipped in a bath of magic potion and fairy dust, and sold to people for thousands.

Okay, then that means the reference to both Supra and Mogami were invalid in regard to the manufacturing costs of niche products such as headphone cables for Sennheisers.  It also shows you like to aggrandize (costs being mentioned were $250.00, not thousands) and still no business discussion regarding manufacturing costs and business infrastructure and how these costs apply to the price of goods and services, you folks don't use and have no interest in buying.

???

Come on, if you guys want to complain about price, then let's talk "real" business.  Let's write about ongoing, for profit sales price that consistently pays the bills (cash flow) and no more discussion regarding kitchen table, DIY, life's a rip-off, not trying to make a profit discussion cause it's businesses you're bagging on, not kitchen table DIY'ers, giving their efforts away.

I know there are some small business owners, who's livelihood depends on the profitability of their business, reading this thread.

???

Posted this before: http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?LH_BIN=1&_trkparms=65%253A12%257C66%253A2%257C39%253A1%257C72%253A3476&rt=nc&_ipg=&_ssn=stinky1965&_sticky=1&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_sop=16&_sc=1

Over a thousand satisfied customers, but wait.. something is wrong, he can't be serious as for example a bottled water salesman.

And not a bit of business discussion in the link or your comment.

You're complaining about a business owner and their prices, not some e-Bay'er.  You don't find it ironic that you're complaining about a product you don't believe in, won't be buying and you're posting a link to a less expensive product line.  And?  FWIW, it's called competition and consumers have a choice who and where they'll buy their products from.  And if a company fails to sell enough of their products to meet their costs, they fail.  Seems straight forward to me.

???

If you're not able to discuss costs of providing goods and services, just say so.  It's okay.  I find it ironic folks are so quick to write about prices being a rip, yet they're unwilling to discuss real business costs and what it takes to get quality niche products to market, consistently turning a sufficient profit in the process to pay recurring costs and how labor rates (place of origin) along with state and federal labor/tax/environmental code compliance comes into the equation.

You do expect all labor laws to be followed and all required taxes to be paid don't you?

???

A retailer of Supra cable does also custom installation in North America and I bet they also do a Headphone cable, where I'm at that is easy peasy... custom lenght, plugs.. you name it and they do factor in the cost for the bread on their table. The eBay link was to show the actual cost for some cable without mumbo-jubmo..

All you have to do is ask and they (the retailers) are more than willing to comply with your needs, as they are making a living out of all sorts of requests.

A retailer of Supra cable does also custom installation in North America and I bet they also do a Headphone cable, where I'm at that is easy peasy... custom lenght, plugs.. you name it and they do factor in the cost for the bread on their table. The eBay link was to show the actual cost for some cable without mumbo-jubmo..

You bet?  We're talking about a dependable source for a hobbyist to buy and since most here are not having a sound studio wired, your suggestion regarding Supra cables is completely invalid.  As to the e-Bay link, it shows nothing regarding the cost of a legitimate business providing a headphone cable and the costs which surround doing so.  You of course know this e-Bay'er is paying all taxes and is following all state and federal regulations?

???

Again, if you can't discuss business costs of providing goods and services, I'm good.  I'm not trying to pin you.  I'm just pointing out that there are legitimate costs of providing goods and services and this is reflected in each company's pricing structure.  And if one is going call somebody a rip, then they need to be willing to openly discuss apple-to-apple business costs or they're just grandstanding.  Come on, you don't find it ironic that you're discussing a hypothetical custom installation and the act of rolling a special deal headphone cable into this non-existent deal as if it were fact vs the act of buying a real, one-time only, headphone cable from a real vendor?

???

I'm dead serious as long as someone are willing to use Proof by Intimidation.

"Proof by Intimidation?"

Never heard of that, other than a Chicago/New York leg breaker of course.

Again, if you can't discuss costs of providing goods and services, it's okay.

In the meantime, FWIW, you're calling a business supporter of Head-fi a rip without a willingness to discuss actual business costs and regulations and yet show support for an e-Bay'er who gives nothing to Head-fi.  Way to show your appreciation for vendor support.  You guys do know that if you chase all the cable vendors away with your animosity, it's going affect the ability of Head-fi to hang around and you won't have a place to complain about cable manufactures.

???

Previous page there's a link concerning Proof of Intimidation (click on it once and behold), and don't put words in my mouth.. but of course Proof by Intimidation, reference to patent pending etc. I'm shocked! BTW I do own custom Supra cables, it's really nothing magical about the requested procedure and the costs are minuscule compared to the standard length and termination, so there's even money left to buy yourself a really nice interconnect and PSU-cable with good immunity to electro-magnetic interference.

That's my perspective on the OP question concerning of what price-range a cable for a $240 -> $340 headphone should cost.

Headphone cable costs, I made mine buying retail and including all costs for £60. The Grado extension cable sells for £40, the AKG replacement cable is £18, ThatCable sell one for £5. The DIYer and small bespoke maker are going to have higher costs that the big manufacturers. If I became a seller, I would not be able to sell for £60 as i would need a profit and i would not be able to sell the quantities Grado sell. So I would look for £100 or even more, hence I would make an 'overpriced audiophile' cable.

It is then your choice as to which one is worth it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Albedo 

Previous page there's a link concerning Proof of Intimidation (click on it once and behold), and don't put words in my mouth.. but of course Proof by Intimidation, reference to patent pending etc. I'm shocked! BTW I do own custom Supra cables, it's really nothing magical about the requested procedure and the costs are minuscule compared to the standard length and termination, so there's even money left to buy yourself a really nice interconnect and PSU-cable with good immunity to electro-magnetic interference.

 

That's my perspective on the OP question concerning of what price-range a cable for a $240 -> $340 headphone should cost.

A $240 headphone cable should cost $240, just like buying a watch that is bespoke, rare, a talking point, looks good and is massively 'overpriced'. Now, if Grado started to sell their extension cable for $240, then that would be a genuine rip off as we know they can sell if for much less. Small, bespoke makers do not have that ability.

However, I do not think that a $240 cable is any better than a $40 one, but so long as people know the 'science' behind the $240 is spurious, let them buy away.

Please, guys, stop all the bullsh*t.

The question was: Is It Really Worth 'Upgrading' Sennheiser HD 580/600/650 Cables? There is not about science, price, material, connectors, ...

My experience tell me exactly : YES, it is really worth. If somebody do not agree, that is OK for me. If somebody do not believe, well, come to visit Prague - we can make a deal - If I am wrong I pay you, if not you will have a nice vacation.

It takes me about 10s right out the box, after a 250+ hours I am still 100% sure. The only relevant test for me is BLIND test.

Quote:

Originally Posted by spagetka 

Please, guys, stop all the bullsh*t.

 

The question was: Is It Really Worth 'Upgrading' Sennheiser HD 580/600/650 Cables? There is not about science, price, material, connectors, ...

 

My experience tell me exactly : YES, it is really worth. If somebody do not agree, that is OK for me. If somebody do not believe, well, come to visit Prague - we can make a deal - If I am wrong I pay you, if not you will have a nice vacation.

 

It takes me about 10s right out the box, after a 250+ hours I am still 100% sure. The only relevant test for me is BLIND test.

Hi Spagetka

I am delighted to see that you agree that the relevant test is a blind test. By this I guess you mean a properly controlled blind ABX test.

I feel that we could ascertain if the cables make an audible difference with controlled blind ABX tests.

I do think that there might well be differences between the cables but that these differences are eclipsed by auto-suggestion.

The blind ABX tests will remove the triggers for the auto-suggestion and then we can get an idea as to what is really perceivable.

For me Prague is a bit out of the way although it is a lovely city, I know.

If you are in the UK do let me know

Quite apart from the discussion about cables it is always a pleasure to meet people with a love for music.