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All music lovers should take a look. - Page 2

post #16 of 209

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadassBob View Post
. . . I used to use Monoprice cables previously, but developed a severe dislike of them because the cable they use is far too rigid, and the the plugs dont have much bite to them.

 


It's better they have less bite than too much IMO.  I remember running to Rat Shack and picking up a pair of Monster's for $8 when an Emotiva amp that I ordered came in.  One RCA plug was machine wrong, wouldn't fully go on and ripped the jack out of the amp.

 

Personally I love locking RCA plugs myself (one reason I have some Viablue IC's), but the cheapest I can find plugs is $20 for four shipped then roughly .80 per ft of cable.  Compared to the $2.50 or so per monoprice cable the choice is pretty simple at that point.

 

 

 

Still - if anyone knows a cheaper supplier of locking RCA plugs could you PM me a link to them?

post #17 of 209
Thread Starter 

When i first started this post i imagined i will be like a little posting fight but now it's like a room full of engineers and all agree. I didn't want blood spill but some dispute at least. Oh well...

Too bad this thread is now moved into a section which i think is overlooked by many. I started the thread into the cable/accessories topic where people are looking for "very good cables, with pure sound ". But i can't help my hate towards people who sell this outrageous expensive cables. (NOTE: i do not mean good quality reasonable cables with good gold plated connections and made by decent companys, only exotic cables ).

 

Now for digitabl cables. To be or not to be, this is the FACT for digital cables. There is no better signal. 0 and 1's are the same they can't be 0.9999 or 0.001. Exotic usb cables =)) my a**. With digital cables the things are even clearer: if it works it works at 100% , there is no better. It's not like sex, there is always better (woman, tehnique, more women :) ).

 

post #18 of 209


Paging Patrick...

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by logwed View Post

In a hobby as subjective as this, there is no point in 're-educating' the masses. 

 

EDIT: Even if cables cause only psychological improvements, shouldn't those that enjoy that psychological boost be able to enjoy it without the constant criticism and judgement of those who choose not to drink the proverbial kool-aid?


I don't mind cable believers; let people believe what they want to. It's just the people that tell newbies that cables are the answer that irk me.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Erik View Post

logwed, the problem with cables is that it's like trying to explain to a six year-old why tying a cape around his neck doesn't allow him to fly. You can bring in an aviation engineer, but the kid is either going to cry or pitch a fit. Either way, you become the jerk for pointing out reality and that wishes and desires don't change reality. You want to pat the believers on the head and tell them to have fun, but it's not so easy to do with adults.


Best analogy I've read here ever.

 

I was going to get into the cable business by offering cheap recables, but I decided that I really didn't want to get into the cable business. It's just a sleazy business in most cases. I do respect Blue Jeans and a couple other companies for having realistic prices, but even if I offered HGA copper recables for $40, I still make a 30 percent profit. Wire just isn't expensive, and silver is just placebo. I say this because I've made a couple silver cables.

 

I will say that the only reason I recable headphones is because stock connectors have a tendency to fail and if I make a cable, I can always fix it rather quickly. And they do look nicer than stock. I have a liking to multifilament nylon.

 

And Viablue connectors are expensive, yes, but they are also a nice thing to bludgeon a possible intruder with. That's why I buy them.


Edited by Ishcabible - 7/25/10 at 12:19pm
post #19 of 209

I think that the science behind the sound should help guide our decisions but  I don't think we should base our decisions on science alone. Much of the quantitative measurements associated with sounds are really just surrogate markers for what you actually hear.

 

For example, medical sciences may demonstrate that a cholesterol drug (i.e. Zetia) lowers your bad (aka LDL) cholesterol. This sounds all fine and dandy. However, the health benefits in regards to heart attack and mortality prevention may be less clear. This is an example of how surrogate markers may help guide our choices, but they should not be our only decision making tool.

 

You can check out the frequency response curves of equipment all you want, but you'd be silly if you didn't base your decisions ultimately on your ears (like AB testing).

 

You are also silly if you claim to be a science junkie but aren't open to the possibilities that we don't know all the science behind something. I believe that we have most the big chunks of knowledge about sound filled and what we do know about the science is tried and true for the most part. However, as time progresses there may very well be new discoveries that could explain the sound differences (if they even exist) between interconnects.

 

With that said, do I believe that I should pay for expensive cables that appear to be nothing more than snake oil? Not necessarily, but I will let my ears be the ultimate judge of that.

post #20 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmac03 View Post

However, as time progresses there may very well be new discoveries that could explain the sound differences (if they even exist) between interconnects.

 


The "if they exist" part is easier to test than a theoretical missing variable. That should be the starting point
 

post #21 of 209
Thread Starter 

@dmac03

If you don't belive science knows them all, which i agree, the only cable test that should be done is the blind test. If you can, statistically relevant, that one cable is better than the other than buy that. If you liked a cable like 80%+  in all tests than you have something. And guess what? those blind tests are science. Too bad i don't live in US, i would make those tests with the most known people here on head-fi, like headphoneaddict and markl and many more. Unless you blind test them you have no chance making them belive that they have been scamed.
 


Edited by alexxfloo - 7/25/10 at 1:39pm
post #22 of 209

I completely agree that blind testing is the only way to do it, and the purest "science proven" way to demonstrate audio superiority, at least on a personal preference level.

post #23 of 209

I'm an engineer as well so I really get a kick out of the audio cable stuff. The only reason I could justify getting more expensive cables is for the added durability of the cable. Although, when I got my new westone cables for my Triple.fi's I could've sworn I heard something just a little different lol. I've got access to an audio test system, so I've been thinking about bring in both of my cables and running a frequency sweep to measure the magnitudes and phases. If I ever do it, I'll post my results.

post #24 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by brconner View Post

 I've got access to an audio test system, so I've been thinking about bring in both of my cables and running a frequency sweep to measure the magnitudes and phases. If I ever do it, I'll post my results.


Do it, do it, do it...
 

post #25 of 209

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ishcabible View Post

...let people believe what they want to. It's just the people that tell newbies that cables are the answer that irk me.

 

 

 

Yes, that's the whole point as far as I am concerned.

 

If someone misleads an innocent or unknowledgeable person then they are (for want of a better expression) exploiting them, and that is morally wrong.

So, to protect them against exploitation, we explain the facts to the innocent and unknowledgeable person. This is good human nature.

 

However if the innocent person then chooses to ignore the facts, and they choose to believe otherwise (such as 'cables make a difference') then they are simply misleading themselves.

 

This is unfortunate, but part of the way of mankind. It is their life, and their choice.

 

So; calmly explain the facts, and then (perhaps reluctantly) accept that some people will choose to believe otherwise.


Edited by JB197 - 7/25/10 at 4:48pm
post #26 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by JB197 View Post

Yes, that's the whole point as far as I am concerned.

 

If someone misleads an innocent or unknowledgeable person then they are (for want of a better expression) exploiting them, and that is morally wrong.

So, to protect them against exploitation, we explain the facts to the innocent and unknowledgeable person. This is good human nature.

 

However if the innocent person then chooses to ignore the facts, and they choose to believe otherwise (such as 'cables make a difference') then they are simply misleading themselves.

 

This is unfortunate, but part of the way of mankind. It is their life, and their choice.

 

So; calmly explain the facts, and then (perhaps reluctantly) accept that some people will choose to believe otherwise.


I don't know if any opinionated head-fier can take the moral high ground on this issue.  Ego's as huge as continental 'wherever' will ensure that they each know the facts.

post #27 of 209

The two biggest problems I've seen with ABX cable comparisons are:

 

1) They are almost always underpowered with just a few study subjects

 

2) Studies often incorrectly are designed for the subjects to match up sound A to cable A, sound B to cable B, sound C to cable C, etc. This approach assumes does not adequately address the issue of if the cables sound different from each other.

 

 

I think it would be great if we could conduct a large scale blinded study at the next canjam comparing several different tiers of interconnects. If this is possible then we could collectively decide on a study design.  With such a large sample size and a good study design we could surely make decent conclusions

post #28 of 209

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by brconner View Post

I'm an engineer as well so I really get a kick out of the audio cable stuff. The only reason I could justify getting more expensive cables is for the added durability of the cable.


I'm a fashionista and I do it for the bling.

post #29 of 209

JB197 wrote:

 

...and that is morally wrong.

 

You do know that in this Post-Modern world, sans a moral compass with definition, there is no right and wrong as there's only personal opinion or that what's been codified.

 

Law, the codification of ethics and morality.

 

Maybe you should contact your law maker and tell them there ought-ta be a law.

 


Edited by beeman458 - 7/25/10 at 7:05pm
post #30 of 209

I agree with you, Ish, it's only when a noob comes in and sets aside a huge amount of their budget for cables when there is a problem. I don't really care one way or another in the cable debate, I in fact own an aftermarket cable for my HD650s, but that purchase was primarily made to support a friend. I haven't bothered to see if it actually sounds different to me, because that was not the motivator in my decision. Cables should be the last thing that anyone ever thinks about in a setup, and the purchase should be made in mind of durability. 

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