IF someone were to ask me to get them started in Jazz - Page 2

Oh I see. My bad

Think I have to agree with you - although I am susceptible to the same issue. I mostly listen to jazz produced in the 50s and early 60s. I have given post 70s jazz a few shots, but never really managed to like it enough. For me it isn't simply that is detracts from "traditional" notions of jazz, I just find it too technical and I just don't know how to appreciate the music. I could the say the same for contemporary classical.

 

As for pre-war jazz, I actually find it not difficult to like. Love early Billie Holiday, Benny Goodman, Charlie Christian.
 

I actually prefer newer Jazz to the old stuff, maybe because I'm conditioned to modern music, maybe not.  My favorites are part of the Nordic jazz movement, stuff like the Tord Gustavsen Trio and the Esbjorn Svensson Trio.  Its not that I don't appreciate the older stuff, but if I had to choose, I default to the newer movement.

It's all in the actual sound to me. I don't care that a piece of music is "not old" or "not new", I'm more looking for a concept that speaks to me in a fresh way. Of course, the fact that I've been listening to music a long time colors my perception of freshness in a way that's different from someone with another frame of reference.

 

For instance, over on the "…Kind Of Blue" thread there are some clips of a trumpeter named Till Brönner which clearly show a musician who's both talented and well-rounded. But I only had to listen halfway through each to hear that he wasn't going to take me someplace I hadn't been before. In the absence of that level of uniqueness, I'd just prefer to listen to the folks that actually birthed the sounds he's emulating. But that's just me…

Edited by tru blu - 7/23/10 at 9:34am

Good, wistful and unique is Billie Holiday

Jazz since 1970 is NOTHING like jazz in the 20s, 30s and 40s. Compared to then, it's dead as a doornail. In the 30s, jazz was the music of the entire nation. It was on the radio, on records, in concert halls, opera houses, nightclubs, speakeasies, movies, street corners, drifting out of tenement windows.... Syncopated rhythm was the heartbeat of America, and the music was the highest artistic expression of its people. Today, jazz is esoteric, marginalized, specialized. There is is still great jazz being made here and there, but it is most certainly not the vibrant and all pervasive part of culture that it was in the 30s. Anyone who knows anything about the history of jazz knows that. Jazz isn't quite as dead as country and western, but it's close.
Edited by bigshot - 7/23/10 at 7:08pm

Hmmm…great jazz albums post-1970, let's see off the top of my head…I'll deliberately avoid most fusion/electric-jazz discs like Miles Davis' Jack Johnson, stupendous though they may be.

 

Of course, tons of other discs might've been included. Are some selections avant-garde? Yes, but it won't kill anyone to have a thought-provoking disc or two in their collection…might even end up being rewarding.

 

 

Art Ensemble Of Chicago - Full Force

 

Kenny Barron - Wanton Spirit

 

Anthony Braxton - Willisau (Quartet) 1991

 

Rob Brown/Joe Morris/Whit Dickey - Youniverse

 

James Carter - The Real Quietstorm

 

Andrew Cyrille & Maono - Metamusicians' Stomp

 

Pierre Dørge and the New Jungle Orchestra - Music from the Danish Jungle

 

Tommy Flanagan - Thelonica

 

Tommy Flanagan - Sea Changes

 

Stan Getz - Anniversary!

 

Stan Getz - Captain Marvel

 

Stan Getz - Voyage

 

Jerry Gonzalez & the Fort Apache Band - Moliendo Café

 

Charlie Haden/Paul Motian featuring Geri Allen - Etudes

 

Charlie Haden's Liberation Music Orchestra - Dream Keeper

 

Joe Henderson - Lush Life: The Music Of Billy Strayhorn

 

Joe Henderson - State Of The Tenor, Vol. 1

 

Dave Holland - What Goes Around?

 

Abdullah Ibrahim - Water From An Ancient Well

 

Abbey Lincoln - A Turtle's Dream

 

Lounge Lizards - Voice Of Chunk

 

Brad Mehldau - The Art Of The Trio, Vol. 1

 

Pat Metheny-Ornette Coleman - Song X

 

Mingus Big Band - Live In Time

 

Jason Moran & Bandwagon - Ten

 

Paul Motian - On Broadway, Vol. 1

 

Paul Motian - Monk In Motian

 

David Murray - Morning Song

 

David Murray Trio - The Hill

 

Ken Peplowski and Howard Alden - Concord Duo Series, Vol. 3

 

Don Pullen-George Adams Quartet - Breakthrough

 

Sonny Rollins - G-Man

 

Sonny Rollins - Road Shows, Vol. 1

 

Sonny Sharrock - Ask The Ages

 

Woody Shaw - The Moontrane

 

Wayne Shorter - Footprints Live!

 

Henry Threadgill Sextett - Just the Facts and Pass The Bucket

 

David S. Ware - Third-Ear Recitation

 

World Saxophone Quartet - Revue

Edited by tru blu - 7/24/10 at 7:37am

It's not considered a quintessential album by most jazzophiles I know, but it is the one that got me seriously interested in jazz:  Quartet by Herbie Hancock.  In addition to Herbie, it featured Wynton Marsalis, Ron Carter, and Tony Williams.  Williams' drumming was, and continues to be awe-inspiring to me on this record, and the others are obviously no slouches either.

trublu --  we share some favorite musicians clearly! Nice list.

 

And differences in taste still... like to me that Paul Motian band of the 80s was one my favorites ever, but your picks for two recordings would be pretty far down my list.  I'd suggest Trioism, if only one (showing both the extreme beauty and the more fragmented "out" stuff) or, if two, Bill Evans and Motian in Tokyo. I love Monk, and I love that band, but that record sends me back to Monk originals all the time.

 

Or for David S. Ware, Flight of i. Of the DIW's I really didn't like Third Ear. 

 

I have more examples, but I should just come up with my own list, since this is not a criticism of your list at all, and I'm getting a HUGE RUSH out of just reading it, seeing shared interests. I'm also just noticing how different tastes are within what, from another point of view, are extremely similar tastes! I love sharing this stuff.

 

Maybe…maybe not…Trioism is also a favorite, but I think I passed on it because it was more electric than I was looking for in this particular context, like I said at the top about Miles Davis' electric records. (I must say, though, that I've never had much use for Motian In Tokyo.) For someone coming at this music with a different frame of reference, I think the way Motian/Bill Frisell/Joe Lovano deal with the old-school melodies on Broadway and Monk will feel pretty rad.

 

Flight of i is a different story. To my hearing, Third-Ear Recitation is the David S. Ware Quartet at its most freewheeling and cohesive. And somehow, even though the music keeps coming at you it still manages to be pretty accessible. Plenty of other things would work, though, like, say, Cryptology.

 

I guess I was looking at the list as introductory; many ways you can go, but the game is to suck the jazz or avant-garde newbie in without turning them off. In the past, I've had some success recommending most of the discs I chose. In any event, I'd luuuvvvv to see a list you put together. Even if we don't agree on specific discs, I think it'd still give nascent listeners a sense of the importance of these artists.

Edited by tru blu - 7/25/10 at 6:44am

 

Yah mon... I'm feeling so groovy I don't want to use as a word like "disagree" any more even, since I love your list and the range of artists. I have used some different pointers, or recommendations, or indications, from many of the very same artists, some of the same direction.  So really I don't disagree at all, I just have used some different colors for similar projects myself, you know :-)

 

I'll have to think on a list. I'm lazy at the moment.  I will say that in a quiet state of mind, I listened to "Yallah" from Motian/Lovano/Frisell's 'At The Vanguard'... and at least most of that sounds more "acoustic" while still stretching into post-Ornette sorts of free lines... and it's so insanely psychic the group improv, and the melodic improv of Joe Lovano in particular is so lyrical I almost think I understand words, and it's such a blissful, patient journey.... at this moment it's my new favorite thing this band ever did.  And then the other tunes on that record... "The Sunflower" for one... music so dreamlike and beautiful it just pulls me out of my dark places and makes me so grateful I'm alive and have ears and can listen to it.

 

So that goes on my fledgling list  (one item long, tonight, as my bed beckons... I'll work it up just to show gratitude for yours.  Get over my laziness. Promise).