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If you've ever been a member of Management, lend me your opinion - Page 3

post #31 of 34

I believe involving HR should be a last resort, if at all, unless one is very clear about the role of HR in a corporation.  HR is not there for the protection of the individual employee.  Put another way, HR is not on your side.  It is there to protect the corporation and minimize its risk exposure.  This does not mean that people who work in HR are bad, simply that HR and employees often have competing objectives and priorities.  In my experience, many employees are not cognizant of these facts and end up escalating issues to HR only to find an unflattering paper trail left in the wake.

 

In terms of documentation, I think the wisest thing do is to save damning or abusive emails (in hard copy form), memos, and voicemails for a rainy day.  They could be useful when negotiating severance or any number of other situations.  Generally speaking, the only person or entity with your best interest in mind in the employment scenario is you.  Be careful when allowing any other person or department to "advocate" on your behalf.

 

EDIT: Big caveat--in the situation where you, as a supervisor, need to document and support the reasons for firing someone, it is a good idea to involve HR early.  The fact that HR can be most useful when firing someone should be enough to make someone think twice about going to HR for anything except benefits issues, etc.


Edited by The Monkey - 7/25/10 at 10:03am
post #32 of 34
Thread Starter 

While it is not technically allowable by law / business ethics, retaliation does and will occur.  This is especially probable and especially nasty when the HR person and your boss/lead/manager are "friends".  If someone is a poor boss or bad worker to begin with, it is very easy for them to think to themselves "That just doesn't add up, Manager ABC is a good fellow. This guy must have some kind of grudge or something" instead of investigated the allegation(s) objectively.  At a previous job at which I saw behavior like that described in my OP, there were several instances of employees going to HR, only to be fired or have it used against them later on, or (and in my opinion worse) told it would be investigated, when in fact it was ignored, shelved, and probably not even documented.

 

A couple family members of mine made a good point, that while HR is legally and ethically bound to support the needs of the employees, you must remember that ultimately they are paid by The Company, and work for The Company.  They exist to assist you and help you insofar as it helps The Company reach the goals they need (i.e. legal etc) and want (i.e. profit etc)
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by adktitan View Post

Just curious why you think this is not a smart move to make? Wouldn't documenting behavior patterns be wise if you need them in the case of an escalating situation? I, nor any of my staff have ever "gone to HR", as there has not been a need for any situations I have been directly involved in, but I'm always interested in hearing your reasons for you opinions. For as long as I've been lurking on HF, your advice seems like some of the most solid on the site (and it's free), so I'm curious....


Edited by Sduibek - 7/25/10 at 10:46am
post #33 of 34

A good article on topic for this thread...

 

http://www.businessweek.com/managing/content/jul2010/ca2010078_954479.htm

 

Having worked/managed at a few like this over the years, its notable that when the problem stems from higher up, you have no chance on changing anything.  Find another place to work ASAP and don't mention why in your exit interview; it only burns bridges and may come back to haunt you in the future.


Edited by itsborken - 7/26/10 at 8:04am
post #34 of 34


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwirugby View Post

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheAttorney View Post

"I'm a manager and I hate this crap!  I never act this way!"

 

No really. I've found that being considerate and understanding towards my staff will always give better results.

 

 

I think this is absolutely correct: consideration and understanding are key to good management.   To these I would add respect, recognition and support for any and all staff.

 

I lead an organization with 90+ employees and all our managers have to lead by example and treat all their staff with civility and respect. 

 

I always see "mistakes" as teachable moments and, at times, opportunities to see what issues may be behind less-than-optimal performance.  Unmasking life's struggles that we all contend with in staff and doing whatever is necessary to care for what is bothering staff members really makes staff feel wanted and appreciated.   I cannot tell you how many times I have sent a troubled staff member home for the rest of the day...or a couple of days...to get some rest, to deal with personal issues -  at full pay - for them to return feeling better and ready to work.

 

It all comes down to caring.   If you really care for your employees and those you work with, you will be surprised how much effort you will get.....and then you recognize and reward the hell out of it!

 

And yes, managers make mistakes too and we should own up to and address them!


I have been with the same public sector employer for 21 years and in management for the last three. I took up a new post a couple of weeks ago and the first thing I did was reassure my staff that mistakes are not punishable, only denying or ignoring them. I also have someone who is on long term sick and have had more contact with them in the past few weeks than they had had in the past 3 months from work.

 

I totally agree with your post TheAttorney.

 

IME the worst managers are the school playground bully managers, who create an atmosphere of hostility and cliques and who will examine others behaviour in critical detail, whilst completely ignoring their own.

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