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post #211 of 220

wind016:

If you saw Batman as George Bush, it's probably not intended, because I definitely did not. 


Why not intended? What a rich canvas to work with. I do admit to a moment of self-doubt. But the wonderful internet introduced me to similar nuts. Alas, I'm not the most eloquent, so here is Variety blog post I'll quote, which is also skeptical but still open minded. I added a couple of my own notes in the **.

 

 

"This brings to mind one of the most unsettling scenes in The Dark Knight, in which Batman beats up the Joker in the police interview room as the police look on, hoping to force him to reveal what he’s done with good guys Harvey Dent and Rachel Dawes.

/~/

But then I thought more about the scene. As Batman confronts the Joker, the film cuts away to the police, the normal people, watching them from the other side of the one-way mirror — just as we, the audience *this of course more broadly could be defined as us the world, America and so forth*, are watching Batman and the Joker  through the movie screen. *the mould would represent the media, the filter the public is dependent upon*

 

This is also the scene in which the Joker taunts Batman: “What would I do without you? You complete me,” and warns, “To them, you’re just a freak. Like me.” *remember, at the time of and for a period before the film's release, Bush's approval ratings had slid dismally, and he was widely mocked in world and U.S. press." Those words may come from the mouth of the villain, but the filmmaking suggests the Joker has, like a Shakespearean fool on PCP, hit on a harsh truth: Batman has more in common with his killer-clown foe than with the normal people he means to protect." *Take Bush and bin Laden - both were widely disdained for their acts, yet felt just in their cause.*

 

I'm a little dusty, but there are several other parallels that can also be drawn. Like say the early Bruce Wayne as a playboy scenes. Yeah, more a construct of Batman. Still think about the story and George W. Bush's own playboy reputation - when he was younger. Bush was also a child of privilege, whom had a moral rebirth later.

 

So forth and so on... that's the last I'll say about it. I know most roll their eyes at it!

 

/Edit

 

Oh one more thing, I forgot the most important evidence of all, which is the overall story arc!

 

Okay at the end of Batman Begins, Gotham city has suffered a horrible act of terrorism to which Batman is the savior, and the signal is unveiled. That first part sound familiar? The bookend to that would be the signal that is destroyed at the end of The Dark Knight. Okay if you're not following me, think back the Presidency of Mr. Bush. He was a savior in the beginning and enjoyed record approval ratings in the aftermath of 9/11. However, toward the end, his popularity took a dramatic dip as I commented on before. The fights which he doggedly fought just in order to make the U.S. safe (to paraphrase him, I offer no opinion on his politics), also destroyed the public's love for him, ahem just like Batman and Gotham City. 


Edited by virometal - 1/14/11 at 4:00pm
post #212 of 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoupRKnowva View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by Sil3nce View Post

We all know your favorite movie is American Pie



i dont really know where you came up with that....maybe you just pulled it out of your ass in an attempt at humor??

 

 

wind016, ill be sure to check that out, hopefully netflix has it 


That's right.

Right after I took a dump my friend

post #213 of 220
I liked Inception fine but wasn't as impressed as others. I had two problems with it.

1) The "architect" thing didn't make any sense, and I didn't find Ellen Page credible in the role. The architect is some kind of supergenius artiste who "creates the world" for everyone but it never crystallized for me how that works, what effort is required, why it's necessary. It seemed an expendable puff piece of the movie. And I just couldn't see Ellen Page as a technical virtuoso or intellectual genius of any kind, period.

2) After an intriguing setup, the second half devolved into pure action movie. This was a disappointing turn - typical hollywood. You don't feel you've "got your moneys worth" without a crescendoing series of violent action scenes. How do you know the movie's over unless something big explodes? Lame.

Otherwise it had interesting aspects. Reminded me of the Murakami book "Hardboiled Wonderland and the End of the World" in many ways, which is a very good thing.
post #214 of 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by virometal View Post
"This brings to mind one of the most unsettling scenes in The Dark Knight, in which Batman beats up the Joker in the police interview room as the police look on, hoping to force him to reveal what he’s done with good guys Harvey Dent and Rachel Dawes.

/~/

But then I thought more about the scene. As Batman confronts the Joker, the film cuts away to the police, the normal people, watching them from the other side of the one-way mirror — just as we, the audience *this of course more broadly could be defined as us the world, America and so forth*, are watching Batman and the Joker  through the movie screen. *the mould would represent the media, the filter the public is dependent upon*

 

^This I never thought about, but when I see this I think the law rules rolleyes.gif As well as shadiness and a couple other things.

post #215 of 220

Oops, just reading folks; didn't mean to post.   

post #216 of 220

Well I'm going to watch Dark Knight again tomorrow with my father.

 

All your theories make sense, but I think I'd rather enjoy Batman for its own intrinsic value. The reason why is the same reason why I don't like programme music. I'd prefer to find my own meaning to it. I'm sure Nolan wanted audiences to see some relations to recent events, but probably not to such a parallel like all the theories seem to indicate. I'm also pretty sure it would ruin Heath Ledger's Joker performance for me if I saw him as Bin Laden. haha

 

Very very interesting points though.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by virometal View Post

wind016:

If you saw Batman as George Bush, it's probably not intended, because I definitely did not. 


Why not intended? What a rich canvas to work with. I do admit to a moment of self-doubt. But the wonderful internet introduced me to similar nuts. Alas, I'm not the most eloquent, so here is Variety blog post I'll quote, which is also skeptical but still open minded. I added a couple of my own notes in the **.

 

 

"This brings to mind one of the most unsettling scenes in The Dark Knight, in which Batman beats up the Joker in the police interview room as the police look on, hoping to force him to reveal what he’s done with good guys Harvey Dent and Rachel Dawes.

/~/

But then I thought more about the scene. As Batman confronts the Joker, the film cuts away to the police, the normal people, watching them from the other side of the one-way mirror — just as we, the audience *this of course more broadly could be defined as us the world, America and so forth*, are watching Batman and the Joker  through the movie screen. *the mould would represent the media, the filter the public is dependent upon*

 

This is also the scene in which the Joker taunts Batman: “What would I do without you? You complete me,” and warns, “To them, you’re just a freak. Like me.” *remember, at the time of and for a period before the film's release, Bush's approval ratings had slid dismally, and he was widely mocked in world and U.S. press." Those words may come from the mouth of the villain, but the filmmaking suggests the Joker has, like a Shakespearean fool on PCP, hit on a harsh truth: Batman has more in common with his killer-clown foe than with the normal people he means to protect." *Take Bush and bin Laden - both were widely disdained for their acts, yet felt just in their cause.*

 

I'm a little dusty, but there are several other parallels that can also be drawn. Like say the early Bruce Wayne as a playboy scenes. Yeah, more a construct of Batman. Still think about the story and George W. Bush's own playboy reputation - when he was younger. Bush was also a child of privilege, whom had a moral rebirth later.

 

So forth and so on... that's the last I'll say about it. I know most roll their eyes at it!

 

/Edit

 

Oh one more thing, I forgot the most important evidence of all, which is the overall story arc!

 

Okay at the end of Batman Begins, Gotham city has suffered a horrible act of terrorism to which Batman is the savior, and the signal is unveiled. That first part sound familiar? The bookend to that would be the signal that is destroyed at the end of The Dark Knight. Okay if you're not following me, think back the Presidency of Mr. Bush. He was a savior in the beginning and enjoyed record approval ratings in the aftermath of 9/11. However, toward the end, his popularity took a dramatic dip as I commented on before. The fights which he doggedly fought just in order to make the U.S. safe (to paraphrase him, I offer no opinion on his politics), also destroyed the public's love for him, ahem just like Batman and Gotham City. 

post #217 of 220

^1+

post #218 of 220
I think you guys are reading far too much into these movies. You can try to make complex analogies with a bus schedule if you want, but that doesn't mean that intent was there. Nolan can deliver great imagery, but that's about it. His scripts are leaden, his dialog is clichéd and dull, and he his movies are all about an hour too long. But they make money, so the suits haven't reined him in.

Nolan does have some talent for imagery. I think he'd be better off doing cinematography or maybe nature documentaries.

And while I'm at it, Adam West is the one true Batman. Shame you kids today didn't get to grow up with the TV show. It's everything these dreadful snores are not. Fun, creative, full of jokes, and a cast with loads of personality and quirks. Romero was a great Joker, plus we got Milton Berle, Vincent Price, Eartha Kitt, Burgess Meredith, and lots of terrific character actors. Everyone was having a good time with this. Including Bob Kane, who wrote for the series. Much unlike a character who spends two hours brooding, brooding, brooding, then brooding some more up on a rooftop while trying very hard to look serious. Oh, and there's some occasional CGI thrown in, too.
post #219 of 220

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Erik View Post

I think you guys are reading far too much into these movies. You can try to make complex analogies with a bus schedule if you want, but that doesn't mean that intent was there. Nolan can deliver great imagery, but that's about it. His scripts are leaden, his dialog is clichéd and dull, and he his movies are all about an hour too long. But they make money, so the suits haven't reined him in.

Nolan does have some talent for imagery. I think he'd be better off doing cinematography or maybe nature documentaries.

And while I'm at it, Adam West is the one true Batman. Shame you kids today didn't get to grow up with the TV show. It's everything these dreadful snores are not. Fun, creative, full of jokes, and a cast with loads of personality and quirks. Romero was a great Joker, plus we got Milton Berle, Vincent Price, Eartha Kitt, Burgess Meredith, and lots of terrific character actors. Everyone was having a good time with this. Including Bob Kane, who wrote for the series. Much unlike a character who spends two hours brooding, brooding, brooding, then brooding some more up on a rooftop while trying very hard to look serious. Oh, and there's some occasional CGI thrown in, too.

 

I grew up with the Adam West TV series, but also reading Detective Comics and other Batman books of that era onward. As Frank Miller brought Batman to a mature audience with the comics, Tim Burton did the same cinematically with the movie. My Batman will always be Micheal Keaton, and Jack Nicholson will always be the Joker to me although Ledger was very good. I agree that Nolan's imagery was spectacular though. I will give props to the 1960's TV show for campiness, and you forgot Julie Newmar, the best Catwoman ever. But Burton's vision of Gotham and Keaton's characterization, along with the spectacular score by Danny Elfman made the first "serious" Batman movie an all-time classic that has since been unmatched IMHO. I just picked it up on Blu Ray, finally, can't wait to fire it up on the DLP.

 

Oh yeah, Inception. Carry on cool.gif

post #220 of 220

Uncle Erik:


I think you guys are reading far too much into these movies. You can try to make complex analogies with a bus schedule if you want, but that doesn't mean that intent was there.

I think that is a lazy comparison. Metaphor is one of the oldest literary, and yes cinematic conventions. You may not believe my theories, but to me only the most close minded or dogmatic, would refuse to even consider the Joker as an allusion to terrorism, terror, or bin Laden. It's as plain as the nose on your face, unless one accepts absolutely everything in the world at only face value. 

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