Final questions before purchasing SA6

1. So if you would still recommend me one of those two or any other brand over SA6, I'd be glad to hear your recommendations.

For a broad, flat response, the SA6 might not be the best option.  Most single driver BA earphones simply lack the frequency response breadth and roll off or get jagged on one or the other end of the spectrum.  You really have to step to a dual BA earphone to adequately cover the entire frequency spectrum.  Now the SA6 is not a bad idea if you intend to EQ the low end up.  Run no filter or the light filter on top and no rear cover, and it's pretty well balanced with a smooth roll off on the low end.  EQ up the bottom end, and it's very well balanced and extended, but you do need EQing to get you there.  The single driver is most geared towards the midrange and treble.  You may think about waiting for the SA7 to come out relatively soon.  It will be Sleek's dual BA version, and I expect that to be quite good, albeit a little more pricey.

2. Progressive rock groups such as Yes, Genesis, King Crimson etc. consist 90 % of my music collection. Some people on the board mentioned SA6s "are not for complex music" and so I have reservations about buying the SA6. Because Yes and Genesis are tight rock groups that play really complex music with lots of instruments creating intricate layers, textures of sounds... SA6's greatest strength is said to be the midrange and that it is great for vocals. Although Peter Gabriel of Genesis and Jon Anderson of Yes are great vocals, these groups, like most Prog groups, certainly do not make vocal-centric music. In short, I listen to complex music that is not vocal-centric like pop, straight rock etc, although vocals are important also... So do you think SA6 would disappoint me with its delivery of other (non-vocal-related) aspects of music?

The SA6 has no problems with complex music.  Most BA earphones are quite clean in sound with excellent separation and detail, more so than most dynamics, even good ones.  There are only a couple BA earphones I've used that have a thick, blended sound, the ER4S and Custom 3, but even then these earphones are very clean and detailed despite being on the "muddier" side of what BAs offer.

3. Some say SA6 lacks dynamics... Is that true? And what does it exactly mean, dynamics? 

No.  Most earphones that lack dynamics are earphones that either (a) lack adequate throw and are limited in raw output or (b) are heavily damped and limit the movement of the driver.  (a) is common among many budget level products.  (b) is specific to some earphones like the RE0 or ER4S.  The SA6 offers good dynamic breadth and is of little concern for you.

4. As I have mentioned, it's gonna be my first IEM... So would you consider starting with a bi-flange IEM, instead of a single-flange one, a risque? Should I buy a single-flange one and see if I want a deeper-insert one?

You are free to use a wide array of ear tips on any earphone.  You won't be bound to any specific stock setup.  You simply need to find a tip that fits your ears well that are both comfortable and seal very well.  Suggestions for the SA6 or most BA earphones that run a small nozzle size is Shure's foam tips (commonly referred to as "Olives") or Comply's T-100 tips.  Foam typically offers the best mix of comfort and seal.

5. Everyone thinks SA6 is very comfortable. Is it also good when walking too? Or do the microphonics rise and comfort decrease while walking?

Their compact and very light design makes them very comfortable.  You do still need to run a tip that fits your ear well and is very comfortable.  Being your first IEM, tips will bug your ears for a while, some itchiness, some sensitivity and soreness, but that will go away after some time (several weeks). 

6. How do I tell what I'm getting is the latest edition? And Latest edition is the 2009 version with the cable and housing update, right? There's no 2010 version or some other edition?

It says on the box actually.

7. Soundearphones.com which most people seem to prefer, hifiheadphones.co.uk and earphonesolutions.com do not have SA6 in stock. I am planning to order one for 200 $ from headphone.com which offers a "no-questions-asked" 30-Day return option... Any comments, warnings etc. about this company? Any other online shop you might recommend?

Many seem to sell around the $120 mark on the forum if you don't mind used products.  Most are open to shipping anywhere.

8. If the cables of my SA6 broke within the 90 days guarantee period, I will recieve replacements from Audio Sleek and not the online shop I bought the product from in the first place, right?

Most likely your fault.  While they are very technical in design, they will last very well as long as you're not mean to them.  There are more durable options out there though.

9. Do the noise isolating IEMs like SA6 also block the music from being heard by people around? I am usually torn between the dilemma of having to turn up the volume of my earbuds to be able to supress the ambient noise and then having to turn the volume down nevertheless not to disturb the people around (when I'm on a bus etc...)

Isolation works both ways.  It blocks outside sound and prevents outside people from hearing your music.

10. Is there any way to tell if I have small ear canals? Some products are mentioned not to be for people with small ear canals, so I backed off from those products not knowing if I have small ear canals or not... A dumb question, yet...

That's for you to figure out.  Expect small to start with, but you'll figure that out eventually.

Well, if you don't mind used, there are some nice, high end earphones you can pick up including most any dual BA earphone as well as some triple driver earphones.  Frankly, few IEMs out there are much more than $250 used, even the top level IEMs.

BA =  balanced armature

It's a secondary type of speaker that's designed a bit different than the older dynamic driver.  It's simply a completely different design and has some different traits in sound.

A couple earphones I really like are Hi-Fi Man's RE252 and Audio Technica's CK10.  Both offer outstanding sound quality and are very well priced.  Both used can be around $150 and even under $200 new.  The Klipsch Custom 3 is a really good IEM priced around the SA6 level, but it's discontinued and pretty much only available on eBay now from people selling old stock.  The drivers used are really good, but Klipsch put on a really sucky cord, and they didn't sell too well for Klipsch.  These are a few really good bang for the buck options and all pretty well balanced.  Some of the higher level earphones have various ranges of worth, but they aren't as flat in response but offer some other unique traits.

The CK10 is a really great earphone.  It has a specific frequency response peak at 12kHz that makes the top end a little hot without EQing, but it has ultra high detail and a very life-like sound that is largely unmatched.  I'm a big fan of the RE252 and like it a lot.  It has a flatter response yet still slightly bright but really well balanced.  The Custom 3 offers a little thicker note but better sound stage.  It's a very good, very overlooked earphone and unfortunately now discontinued.  If you can overlook the crappy cord on the thing, it sounds great.  All of these options are quite affordable and within $200 and available used significantly under $200.  Bang for the buck, these represent some of the best options.

a bit offtopic but:

Would the panasonic hje900 be compatible with the sleek audio w-1 unit? 

Because the plugs are specific to the SA6 units, I'd say no.  Now you could certainly chop the end off of the device and wire in whatever end you want and get anything to hook up to it, but you'd have to be fine doing that to something you just paid $150 for.  You would be modding both the W-1 unit and the headphone you attach it to.  You could wire in a 3.5mm plug and use it for any headphone as a wireless amp, but I just don't see why you may do that instead of plugging the headphones into the source device or route it through a compact amp like the FiiO E5.  To get the same level of wireless operation, you would need to chop off most of the wire of any headphone you use and splice it to the W-1 unit so it fits the same way as it would with the SA6.  Are you fine with that?  What about potential resale?

Software EQ.  It's simply that the low frequency sensitivity drops off.  You are looking for a neutral sounding earphone and the SA6 does fine with that.  You are looking for an earphone with good extension, and the SA6 lacks some.  The top end is decently extended yet smooth sounding.  The bottom end rolls off and can come across a bit lean.  It responds well to EQing, and EQing can get you good bass out of the earphone.  It's just that single BA earphones are typically limited in breadth of response, and you need to step to a good dynamic like the RE252 or IE8 or dual BA like the CK10 or Custom 3 to get great coverage of the frequency range.  That's just how it goes.  EQing can work around that.  Not all drivers respond well to EQing and offer good sound if boosted.  The SA6 does well though, so if you have EQing, you can get what you want.  If you don't, expect a little bit of a lean bass line or step to another option.  Frankly all of these options I'm suggesting are great earphones, so any of them will do very nicely.  They each have their own flavor and presentation, so certain options will suit you better.  Read through reviews and user comments and see which options sound like they'll fit you best.  Joker has a pretty comprehensive review set, and I tend to agree with most of what he says for the products we have both experienced.  I've reviewed most everything I've used, and that can be found in various posts in this forum.  ClieOS has reviewed a ton of earphones and is also pretty spot on with info.  There's a lot of information here, so make good use of it.  It'll steer you in the right path.

If you like bass guitar and seek it, that sort of means you will like some low frequency emphasis.  It may not always be emphasis, but you may like a thicker note, something with weight.  For example, the Custom 3 has that kind of nature where you get a more prominent sense of the bass line simply because the note is thicker in presentation and retains that hearty weight.  Another earphone you might look at is the Triple.Fi 10.  It's within your price range, a little V shaped in response, but you also get a thick note and an excellent bass line.  A little EQing can go a long way.  Certain tip choices can influence the end result.  The Triple.Fi 10 has some stink about it due to some troublesome fitment due to its design, but the proper tip and some time getting the memory wire in the right place will let them work great.  A good earphone is an earphone that you just enjoy listening to.  It's one that even when testing or comparing you will listen through the whole song just because you're having fun.  The Triple.Fi 10 is one of those earphones.  On a personal scale I see the CK10, RE252, and Triple.Fi 10 at pretty much the same level.  The differences are much more a matter of personal taste.  I see the Custom 3 as a half step down, very good though.  The SA6 is somewhere near the Custom 3.  Without EQing I do like the SA6, but it is limited in breadth.  It's an earphone I'd much prefer with an EQ.  With the others, you can run them without anything and do great, but even those you can EQ and improve the end result.  If you don't mind a little more cost, I could even suggest you search for a used IE8, although it will be bassy.  It's simply another really good option out there and one that would give emphasis towards that bass line.  Like I said, there's lots of options out there.  Don't get me wrong.  I am a big fan of the SA6.  It's just that I would prefer to EQ it if I had the option, and I think it might be a little light on the low end for your goals without an EQ available.  Something like the Custom 3 is a better option at essentially the same price point and will give a good bass presence.  The CK10 and RE252 are a little brighter, and you should want to prefer a little more midrange and treble emphasis if you were inclined to use either.  As an alternative I suggested the Triple.Fi 10, a great earphone in its own right but a bit V shaped in response.  You can use a foam tip like Comply's T-500 and soak up some of the top end emphasis as well as provide a good seal and comfortable fitment.  Bass is emphasized, and you get a nice, full bass line.  The top end is strong but it's sweet and sparkly.  I would consider it a less flat earphone than the Custom 3 but also a step up in overall sound quality.  The IE8 I just tossed out there as an option.  It's bass heavy, warm, but excellently balanced otherwise.  It's simply another one of those great options and can be pretty affordable used.  it's tough to say what you might prefer.

Keep reading reviews.  Pick one.  Use it.  If you like it great.  If you seek something a little bit different, use that product as a comparison point to your next purchase.  You might start with the Custom 3 and move to the IE8.  You might start with the Triple.Fi 10 and move back to the Custom 3.  You may find that you really do like the CK10's super detailed treble.  Really a lot of this is self-exploration.  Buy something.  Try it for a while.  Sell it.  Buy something different.  Keep repeating.  If you buy used, you really don't lose money, so you have quite a bit of freedom to test out a slew of hardware with no real harm to the wallet other than some temporary liquid assets.  Don't feel like you're bound to one product simply because that was your first pick.  Think of this as a first step to many future head-fi experiences.  Part of the joy of this hobby is experiencing the range of hardware out there and the wide variety of sound signatures of that hardware.  Many products are surprisingly good but in different ways.  Part of this hobby has to do with learning yourself and what you like and prefer.

SA6 does lack dynamics and it does choke a bit on complex music. It is by no means a dull, flat sounding IEM. In fact, it is one of my favorites to date, but if you listen to a lot of complex music with a wide dynamic range, then the SA6 may not be for you. Dynamics means dynamic range or the difference between the quieter and louder sounds in a recording - the greatest the difference, the wider the dynamic range.

I think mvw2 has summed up pretty much everything that needs to be said. I'll just emphasis something about BA drivers so that it is more easily understood. While BA drivers are certainly good at reproducing the frequency band, a single BA driver has difficulty producing aspects beyond simply the frequencies associated with lows, mids, and highs. Things such as bass impact ("feeling" the bass instead of hearing it), imaging (the realism, instrument placement, soundstage, and enjoyment with which you feel the music is played, rather than hearing a "recording"), as well as many other things such as decay of an instrument and such, are harder for a single BA driver to do than a single dynamic driver.

This is why many manufacturers now pair multiple BA drivers into an IEM and then integrate a crossover to answer this problem. The crossover redirects certain portions of the frequency spectrum to the respective BA drivers so that each BA driver works on one section of the frequency band. Think about it like the assembly line. Each person does a single task, and then everyone's work produces the actual car. For example, in a triple balanced armature driver IEM such as the Shure SE530, the crossover is a two-way crossover, re-directing the bass portion of the music to 2 (two) individual BA drivers which will only work on producing the low notes. The one balanced armature driver left will handle both the mids and highs. Since the crossover is dividing the frequency spectrum to bass and mids/highs, this is a two-way crossover. On another triple balanced armature driver IEM such as the EarSonics SM3, the crossover is 3-way. This means that the lows will be re-directed to a single BA, the mids to another BA, and the highs to the last BA.

By pairing multiple BA drivers together, manufacturers can address the problems facing a single BA driver that I mentioned earlier. Actually, more BAs do not necessarily mean a better sound (some comparing the JH-13, a 6 driver BA IEM, to the EarSonics EM3-Pro, a 3 driver BA. It all really depends on the tuning of the BAs and the actual time the manufacturer took to engineer the final sound of the IEM).

Now, the Sleek SA6 (which I've never heard by the way), is a single driver balanced armature IEM. This means that it will certainly reproduce the frequency spectrum properly, but may miss on several things that people seek when enjoying music (such as soundstage, bass impact, clarity). Since one BA driver is working to produce every part of the music, it will nevertheless have difficulty reaching the same reproduction of a triple-balanced armature IEM such as the Shure SE530 or EarSonics SM3. Think about it like three heads are better than one, it's a similar analogy. I actually own a single BA driver IEM, the Shure SCL4, and while they reproduce music very well, they miss on many, many aspects of music that my other IEMs simply do effortlessly. This does not mean that I don't enjoy my SCL4's, it just means that when I compare them side-by-side to triple balanced armature IEMs, they can't match the sound of those IEMs.

Having said all this, with your budget, I recommend either a dual BA driver IEM (or a triple BA driver like the Triple.fi10 if you can afford it--though it goes for rather cheap now-a-days used), or personally, a dynamic-driver IEM such as the Sennheiser IE7/IE8, RE252, Monster MTPC, etc. The reason I recommend a dynamic driver for your price range is that, they simply move much more air than BA driver IEMs. This means that bass response is much better and natural sounding on a dynamic driver (unless comparing to a very well crafted multi-BA driver IEM). Not only is bass response very good, but the rest of the frequency response can even exceed the performance of some BA driver IEMs. For your price range and tastes, I would really recommend the Sennheiser IE7 because it seems to fit your bill quite nicely. The Sennheiser IE8 (I used to own the IE8) is a very good IEM (technically better than the IE7), but because of its mid-bass hump, it sounds bassy sometimes.

Also, as mvw2 mentioned, this head-fi journey is more about your own tastes, which you will only understand after trying many products. Buying used is a very good idea, and there is little financial loss when buying used. Hope I helped with any questions you had.

Quote:

Originally Posted by meurglys0 

 

So Pianist, what IEM (balanced, neutral, dynamic and comfortable with no microphonics) do you recommend me instead of SA6?
 

I recommend Hifiman RE-ZERO. Just wear them over the ear and that will eliminate almost all microphonics. With the stock large bi flange tips, they should suit rock music wonderfully. They have better dynamics than the SA6 and much higher overall detial resolution. They will reproduce complex music passages with no problems at all.