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Dark Voice 339 - Page 108

post #1606 of 2242
Quote:
Originally Posted by telecaster View Post

Drooooooling drooooooooling!!!!!!

 

gs1000.gif

 

 

All those EF86 type, this is gold!!!!!

Your tube collection is pretty impressive!!!!

 

 

The advice about the tube I agree, because the capacitance at the output coupling can act as a high pass filter, the bass can be shadowed on low impedance headphones like the magneplanars. Increasing the output coupling capacitance will allow the bass to fully express itself.

The 5998 tube has high mu, and the it will increase the impedance of those low impedance cans, thus increasing bass response.

Best is to use high impedance can, or if you really love your low impedance can like the above gentleman with Grado "beauty" PS1000, then you only have to increase the capacitance with good capacitor!

Although tubes still have different character so I wouldn't say capacitance is more important, but it sure is the fondation of the amp!

 

 

Mines are:

 

Power tubes:

BENDIX JAN CEA 6080WB - 2

GEC 6AS7G CV2523

CETRON 7236 - 2

CHATHAM 6AS7G copper grid - 2

GEC 6080 - 2

GEC CV2984 KB/Z - 4

GEC 6080WA - 1

RCA 6AS7G black plate - 4

GE 6AS7G copper grid - 4

GE 6AS7G - 2

JAN GE 6AS7G copper grid - 4

 

Drivers (triodes) (NOT COMPATIBLE WITH 339, must modify custom socket wiring):

MULLARD CV1932 KB/FE (round plate) clear type - 2

GEC CV1932 smoke type - 2

L63 OSRAM bottom flash - 2

GEC L63 smoke type - 2

RAYTHEON JAN CRP 6J5WGT Brown base - 2

BRIMAR 6J5GT - 2

SYLVANIA JAN CHS 6J5GT (round plate) - 2

TUNGSRAM 6J5GT UK flat plate

TUNGSOL VT94A bottom flash

ZAERIX 6J5GT

 

Drivers (pentode in triode strapped mode):

TUNGSOL 6SJ7GT - 4

VISSEAUX 6SJ7MGT - 2

RCA JAN 6AC7 VT112 - 2

MULLARD EF80 - 4

TELEFUNKEN EF800 - 4

Stock ones

 

I used to have GEC and amperex buggle boys EF80 type but I sold them.

I confess this is too much tubes, but hey it's a lot of fun all together, adding to that the mod of the amp itself it gets really too much ^^ right! :

 

SCR MKP film capacitors 250V - total 520uF (4 x 100uF + 4 x 30uF)

Paper in Oil capacitor K40Y9 1uF 200V - 2

Teflon capacitor FT3 0,1uF 600V - 2

Mills 50W 1000ohm 1% non inductive - 2

Mills 50W 820ohm 1% non inductive - 2

Caddock mp930 non inductive resistors 1% all over

Bradley comp bleeder résistors - 2

Kiwame metal film resistor

Solid copper gold plated 1.5mm wire in teflon sleeve

BC Vishay 1000uF 200V - 6

BC Vishay 440uF 250V - 4

Solid alu cone feet

Milled solid alu knobs

Vishay hexfred low recovery Graetz custom made on heatsink - 8

 

And I made a little present to the 339, that is a new DAC Meridian Explorer.

 

I'm so Lucky with the sound 339/HD650 gives me ^^

To me, this is like a dream comes true, this is my modern "poor's man Orpheus setup"

 

Your collection is plentiful,too.biggrin.gif

 

My first amp is DV333 (Like LF336C, XMDKQ's product earily), it's capacistance only 30uf, and quaility no good.

I used very much kind of tubes, and had big change, quaility and character of different tubes was obviously in the DV333.

In the my 339 reference, effect isn't obviously of change the power tubes. Even use 6N5P in the 339 reference, it still make good sound.biggrin.gif

I think high capacistance make the power tube effect isn't obviously on the LF339, and 'the smell of tubes' is more light than DV333 or DV337.

But, replace the driver tubes will be more change than power tubes, through the LF339 and DV333, so don't save money in this.

Maybe, my outline make a mistake.I'm sorry, using english isn't easy for me.frown.gif

 

 

Then, I think my 339 renference can better than "Sennheiser Orpheus", because I have to heard it last week.

My 339 renference can drive Grado PS1000 very well, the high frequency is like electrostatic earphone.But, have more storng bass and dynamic.


Edited by kanshouhin - 3/18/13 at 10:10pm
post #1607 of 2242
Quote:
Originally Posted by kramer5150 View Post

  I do not know why the 337 designers chose output capacitance of 51ufd.

 

 

337 on sale in 2006, Good low impedance headphone is few, and isn't popular in china.

337 can drive HD600 and HD650 well that 300ohm impedance is enough.

When, my 337 mod tried to use 90uf output capactors that drive RS1 was surprisingly, XMDKQ decided develop a new amp for low impedance that's LF339. 

post #1608 of 2242

ok, that makes sense.  Thank you for the explanation.  The 337 is a really good sounding amp pushing output transformers and low impedance loads.  Some day hopefully I will get to hear the newest 339... that must be incredible.

 

Thank you for taking time to respond to this thread.


Edited by kramer5150 - 3/19/13 at 12:00am
post #1609 of 2242
Quote:
Originally Posted by kanshouhin View Post

 

337 on sale in 2006, Good low impedance headphone is few, and isn't popular in china.

337 can drive HD600 and HD650 well that 300ohm impedance is enough.

When, my 337 mod tried to use 90uf output capactors that drive RS1 was surprisingly, XMDKQ decided develop a new amp for low impedance that's LF339. 

Is there any plans for a balanced Version of the 339.. Named Maybe a 341?

post #1610 of 2242
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifimanrookie View Post

Is there any plans for a balanced Version of the 339.. Named Maybe a 341?

 

I ever asked the same question, XMDKQ told me that he never have this idea about balanced versoin.

If whichone need a blanced 339, he can use two 339 to build it, XMDKQ jokingly said.

Maybe case size, parts cost, and paired of tubes is complicated, unworthy to do it.


Edited by kanshouhin - 3/19/13 at 2:40am
post #1611 of 2242
You guys hoard loads of NOS tubes. Respects lol
Edited by snip3r77 - 3/19/13 at 3:21am
post #1612 of 2242
Quote:
Originally Posted by kanshouhin View Post

 

Your collection is plentiful,too.biggrin.gif

 

My first amp is DV333 (Like LF336C, XMDKQ's product earily), it's capacistance only 30uf, and quaility no good.

I used very much kind of tubes, and had big change, quaility and character of different tubes was obviously in the DV333.

In the my 339 reference, effect isn't obviously of change the power tubes. Even use 6N5P in the 339 reference, it still make good sound.biggrin.gif

I think high capacistance make the power tube effect isn't obviously on the LF339, and 'the smell of tubes' is more light than DV333 or DV337.

But, replace the driver tubes will be more change than power tubes, through the LF339 and DV333, so don't save money in this.

Maybe, my outline make a mistake.I'm sorry, using english isn't easy for me.frown.gif

 

 

Then, I think my 339 renference can better than "Sennheiser Orpheus", because I have to heard it last week.

My 339 renference can drive Grado PS1000 very well, the high frequency is like electrostatic earphone.But, have more storng bass and dynamic.

 

Hehe tubes are really addictive! It's like jewelry for men ^^

I wish I could hear your setup! It must sound glorious!!!!

Anyway I think I will never hear or own an Orpheus setup. But I remember vividly as a kid when I saw the Senn Orpheus in a magazine. I told myself this must be the king of oïl toy amusement to buy such an expensive setup, and was sure it must sound so gooood!!!

When the HD600, and later its upgrade the HD650 were out, I know the inspiration for them must have been the Orpheus, and when I use my HD650 with the 339 i'm right there already, no need to invest 30 grands for a used Orpheus, the mod 339 is plentiful for me, and I'm a proud owner of an amp that I modded myself. It's so rewarding ^^. I so wish Sennheiser would have release a real HD650 successor meaning a warm and musical HP...

post #1613 of 2242
Quote:
Originally Posted by kanshouhin View Post

 

I ever asked the same question, XMDKQ told me that he never have this idea about balanced versoin.

If whichone need a blanced 339, he can use two 339 to build it, XMDKQ jokingly said.

Maybe case size, parts cost, and paired of tubes is complicated, unworthy to do it.

The advantages of the symmetrical amp for headphone doesn't look like a good idea at all in my point of view.

First, the most critical of all audio Professional, I mean in the studios, never used symmetrical headphones, just because it is useless in a practical term : you don't need to run Ten meters of headphone cable, so why bother with a symmetrical amp? Better be traditionalist with audio and don't listen to the few people who sell their new revolutionary amps, like on this forum those who make a propaganda for low output impedance headphone amp, they are just full of it!

post #1614 of 2242
Quote:
Originally Posted by telecaster View Post

The advantages of the symmetrical amp for headphone doesn't look like a good idea at all in my point of view.

First, the most critical of all audio Professional, I mean in the studios, never used symmetrical headphones, just because it is useless in a practical term : you don't need to run Ten meters of headphone cable, so why bother with a symmetrical amp? Better be traditionalist with audio and don't listen to the few people who sell their new revolutionary amps, like on this forum those who make a propaganda for low output impedance headphone amp, they are just full of it!

Balanced is a term that is used too much on head-fi. The thing is that a lot of different aspects hide under this word. And usually all are mixed together.

 

Wether it be bridging, super-symmetry or just a simple op-amp splitter hiding after a single-ended amplified signal thus making it "balanced". You are right in that headphones are not used in a balanced form in studios. On the other hand. I've seen people that mix with HD-25's and K240¨s. So usually it's not used for uttermost resolution. But more common, from a private desire.

 

----------

 

True balanced, from input to output is not a bad thing.

 

Wether it's pays off depends on the amp, used components and several other things. It can get both cheaper and more expensive. It all depends on what one uses. In this case. Finding 4 pcs of 6AS7-family tubes internally matched and externally matched. Not going to be easy.

 

- running several lower voltage rails and bigger cases means better head dissipation and less strain on components. When the voltage and current demand goes up, component prices go up.

- Lower gain = less noise
- Less feedback = less noise with less interference

 

Other amps that have a large selection of current production tubes, like 2A3, 300B, EL34's might benefit very much from this.

 

---------

 

Don't see the point of making a balanced 339. In that case, there are much better tubes to be used from a OTL point of view. E.g. 6C33C.

 

---------

 

Sorry for the rant, just balanced this and balanced that. A lot of speaker amps are quad-channel. A lot share common ground. Does it say on them. Usually not. But when opened, they show their true nature.

 

So... Bridged, Balanced or Supersymmetry? 3 completely different things. :)

 

Cheers,

V


Edited by ValentinHogea - 3/19/13 at 7:25am
post #1615 of 2242
Must we go for NOS?

Any new production that is as good as them NOS?
post #1616 of 2242
Quote:
Originally Posted by snip3r77 View Post

Must we go for NOS?

Any new production that is as good as them NOS?

I really don't understand the question.

 

If there are new productions as good as NOS? Regarding what? The 6AS7? There are no new-productions. There are plenty of RCA 6AS7G's though, and even more russians. Just search for a certain NOS-tube vendors from Turkey. He has plenty of RCA's to match up 4 pcs. Both internally and externally.

 

If there are any 2A3's as good as NOS. Well, what is NOS? As good as 50's RCA's? Most definitely. E.g. Emission Labs 2A3.

 

If there are any 300B's as good as Western Electric 300B. A purist would say no. But there are definitely more cost-efficient alternatives.

 

Which tubes were you refering to?

 

/V


Edited by ValentinHogea - 3/19/13 at 8:13am
post #1617 of 2242
I saw your mods done on the 339.how much did you invest on it? Is it a one to one replacement?

Quote:
Originally Posted by telecaster View Post

Hehe tubes are really addictive! It's like jewelry for men ^^
I wish I could hear your setup! It must sound glorious!!!!
Anyway I think I will never hear or own an Orpheus setup. But I remember vividly as a kid when I saw the Senn Orpheus in a magazine. I told myself this must be the king of oïl toy amusement to buy such an expensive setup, and was sure it must sound so gooood!!!
When the HD600, and later its upgrade the HD650 were out, I know the inspiration for them must have been the Orpheus, and when I use my HD650 with the 339 i'm right there already, no need to invest 30 grands for a used Orpheus, the mod 339 is plentiful for me, and I'm a proud owner of an amp that I modded myself. It's so rewarding ^^. I so wish Sennheiser would have release a real HD650 successor meaning a warm and musical HP...
post #1618 of 2242

I bought the stock 339 amp like 600$ shipped to France, I think I didn't have customs luckily.

All in all, I think there must be like 500€ in electronic witz that I bought, but be aware that I bought several capacitor in power section for listenning test, and various résistors. If you are Lucky you surely can mod it for like 100€ just for the output coupling. The vishay BC can quickly get expensive. The caddocks too are expensive! If I would have bought all the bits in the famous retailer, it would have cost me like 700€ maybe more. All the parts in there are maybe 400€...


Edited by telecaster - 3/19/13 at 10:49am
post #1619 of 2242

la figaro 339+hd650 sound amazing sound quality went through the roof. I can't wait to get new headphones to test hear more and of course tube rolling

post #1620 of 2242
Quote:
Originally Posted by telecaster View Post

Thanks a bunch Wall-E, I can't thank you enough for all you have done for me and for us modders! I'm very interested in the battery bias, and any insight on the mod would be greatly appreciated! I will try to get all the hardware ready for measurements, my soundcard is kind of middle grade, it's a FireWire TC electronic desktop, but I think it's OK for the job. I guess the eBay sub 100 bux chinese true RMS DMM are not true RMS?

 

Now I'm pretty excited I want to upgrade my blue yellow mod to battery bias! Long live this thread!

No I meant really cheap, the 100 bux could be enough or even less for true rms dmm.
you'll need to measure the voltage on the cathode resistor(white box) to ground read and write the value down, then measure the voltage drop on the plate resistor(across resistor) not to ground, divide this voltage by the value of the plate resistor.This gives you the amount of current being drawn by input tube in milliamps. Write this value down.
Knowing the voltage value on the cathoade which could be closest value of your AA rechargeable cell.
Remove the "white box"place the battery between the cathode and ground so we have now constant pure DC source, battery cathode bias.
Batery that can by use, NiMh, NiCad or NiZn, do not use alkaline battery can explode! The cathode circuit itself keeps the battery charged so you don't have to be wary, they will last as long as the battery will. I pull out my battery after 3 months of use and check with the DMM and the voltage is keeps steady.


Edited by WALL-E - 3/19/13 at 4:05pm
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