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Dark Voice 339 - Page 107

post #1591 of 2404

Chatham 6AS7G and EF80. I also have 2 pair of RCA 6AS7G,2 pair of  Svetlana 6AS7G, 3 pair of Tung-sol 2399/5998, GEC 6AS7G

Besides the EF80 I have the RCA RED 5693 and the Tung Sol 6SJ7WGT and the stock tubes.
 

post #1592 of 2404

My collection

 

 

 

 

 

Telefuken EF86, Telefuken EF806S, Vovlo EF86, Mullard EF86, Philips miniwatt E80F, GEC EF86

 

 

 

 

 

Shuguang 6N5PJ, GEC 6080, GEC 6AS7G, CSF 6080WA, Tungsol 6080WB, Tungsol 5998,

Amprex 6AS7G, Mullard 6080, Telefuken 6080, RCA 6AS7G

 

 

 

 

 

Bendix 6080, Philips 6080

 

 

 

 

I think cheap tubes can be sound good, if your 339 have high quality capacitors.

 

Capactior is more important than tube, Don't waste money on the high price tubes.


Edited by kanshouhin - 3/18/13 at 10:28am
post #1593 of 2404

got any recommendations for capacitors ? 

post #1594 of 2404
Quote:
Originally Posted by snip3r77 View Post

I've been looking for an amp since 2 months ago.

Didn't pull the trigger on the 339 due to the costly NOS tubes. Can some one talk me to it?

5693 Reds for drivers are not to expensive, and 6080wb graphite columned tubes for drivers are not expensive also..for a total of 130usd u have a good pair for ur 339

post #1595 of 2404
Quote:
Originally Posted by wazzupi View Post

got any recommendations for capacitors ? 

I used Audiocap PPMFX film capacitors that's neutral sound.
When the capacistance is more big, the effects of tubes is more less on the circuit of 339.
So, Good tubes are useful of the DV337 than the LF339, because DV337's capacistance is only 50uf, and LF339's capacistance is 130uf.
post #1596 of 2404
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrainferno View Post

Chatham 6AS7G and EF80. I also have 2 pair of RCA 6AS7G,2 pair of  Svetlana 6AS7G, 3 pair of Tung-sol 2399/5998, GEC 6AS7G

Besides the EF80 I have the RCA RED 5693 and the Tung Sol 6SJ7WGT and the stock tubes.
 

Thatsnot cheap at all..for that worth of tubes u can buy a new ampbiggrin.gif

post #1597 of 2404
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifimanrookie View Post

Thatsnot cheap at all..for that worth of tubes u can buy a new ampbiggrin.gif

 

I have bought a new amp also :D

post #1598 of 2404

Drooooooling drooooooooling!!!!!!

 

gs1000.gif

 

 

All those EF86 type, this is gold!!!!!

Your tube collection is pretty impressive!!!!

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kanshouhin View Post

My collection

 

 

 

 

 

Telefuken EF86, Telefuken EF806S, Vovlo EF86, Mullard EF86, Philips miniwatt E80F, GEC EF86

 

 

 

 

 

Shuguang 6N5PJ, GEC 6080, GEC 6AS7G, CSF 6080WA, Tungsol 6080WB, Tungsol 5998,

Amprex 6AS7G, Mullard 6080, Telefuken 6080, RCA 6AS7G

 

 

 

 

 

Bendix 6080, Philips 6080

 

 

 

 

I think cheap tubes can be sound good, if your 339 have high quality capacitors.

 

Capactior is more important than tube, Don't waste money on the high price tubes.

 

The advice about the tube I agree, because the capacitance at the output coupling can act as a high pass filter, the bass can be shadowed on low impedance headphones like the magneplanars. Increasing the output coupling capacitance will allow the bass to fully express itself.

The 5998 tube has high mu, and the it will increase the impedance of those low impedance cans, thus increasing bass response.

Best is to use high impedance can, or if you really love your low impedance can like the above gentleman with Grado "beauty" PS1000, then you only have to increase the capacitance with good capacitor!

Although tubes still have different character so I wouldn't say capacitance is more important, but it sure is the fondation of the amp!

 

 

Mines are:

 

Power tubes:

BENDIX JAN CEA 6080WB - 2

GEC 6AS7G CV2523

CETRON 7236 - 2

CHATHAM 6AS7G copper grid - 2

GEC 6080 - 2

GEC CV2984 KB/Z - 4

GEC 6080WA - 1

RCA 6AS7G black plate - 4

GE 6AS7G copper grid - 4

GE 6AS7G - 2

JAN GE 6AS7G copper grid - 4

 

Drivers (triodes) (NOT COMPATIBLE WITH 339, must modify custom socket wiring):

MULLARD CV1932 KB/FE (round plate) clear type - 2

GEC CV1932 smoke type - 2

L63 OSRAM bottom flash - 2

GEC L63 smoke type - 2

RAYTHEON JAN CRP 6J5WGT Brown base - 2

BRIMAR 6J5GT - 2

SYLVANIA JAN CHS 6J5GT (round plate) - 2

TUNGSRAM 6J5GT UK flat plate

TUNGSOL VT94A bottom flash

ZAERIX 6J5GT

 

Drivers (pentode in triode strapped mode):

TUNGSOL 6SJ7GT - 4

VISSEAUX 6SJ7MGT - 2

RCA JAN 6AC7 VT112 - 2

MULLARD EF80 - 4

TELEFUNKEN EF800 - 4

Stock ones

 

I used to have GEC and amperex buggle boys EF80 type but I sold them.

I confess this is too much tubes, but hey it's a lot of fun all together, adding to that the mod of the amp itself it gets really too much ^^ right! :

 

SCR MKP film capacitors 250V - total 520uF (4 x 100uF + 4 x 30uF)

Paper in Oil capacitor K40Y9 1uF 200V - 2

Teflon capacitor FT3 0,1uF 600V - 2

Mills 50W 1000ohm 1% non inductive - 2

Mills 50W 820ohm 1% non inductive - 2

Caddock mp930 non inductive resistors 1% all over

Bradley comp bleeder résistors - 2

Kiwame metal film resistor

Solid copper gold plated 1.5mm wire in teflon sleeve

BC Vishay 1000uF 200V - 6

BC Vishay 440uF 250V - 4

Solid alu cone feet

Milled solid alu knobs

Vishay hexfred low recovery Graetz custom made on heatsink - 8

 

And I made a little present to the 339, that is a new DAC Meridian Explorer.

 

I'm so Lucky with the sound 339/HD650 gives me ^^

To me, this is like a dream comes true, this is my modern "poor's man Orpheus setup"


Edited by telecaster - 3/18/13 at 4:09pm
post #1599 of 2404

the insurmountable problem isn't really one of capacitance...  its more about volume and space limitations inside the chassis (for the earlier 337 models).  You'd need 250-300ufd to properly couple a ~32 ohm load.  There's just not enough space inside the box for a capacitance reservoir of that total value at ~400-450V.  Low ESR electrolytic caps will work, but now you introduce the sonic differences between film and electrolytic... which may or may not be worth the risk.  The only solution I could come up with was to add an entire second chassis beneath the amp... a metal box to house and hot wire in two ~300ufd coke cans.  That wasn't really practical and would have looked really bad given my weak DIY chassis skills.  Technically it still wouldn't address the output tube impedance miss-match at the root cause.  So my solution was to impedance match using output transformers.... but thats for the other thread and DIY forum.

 

@kanshouhin

 

Wow thats an impressive collection!!... thanks for the advice on tubes too.


Edited by kramer5150 - 3/18/13 at 2:07pm
post #1600 of 2404

Your solution of matching the imput impedance is clever, but aren't you just adding iron to the signal path?

The capacitor is not the limitation per se, you still have to deal with it as OTL amplifier MUST have capacitor in the path.

Also speaking of the capacitance of the power filter section, like Wall-E and I we upgraded the capacitors, and the power of the amp, IS the amp itself.

Choosing good capacitor solution sure IS the solution.

Electrolytic caps is not good, but the 339 has bypassed them.

I choosed to have film caps all over at the output, and that is the solution that the designer of the 339 made for his custom amps.


Edited by telecaster - 3/18/13 at 3:52pm
post #1601 of 2404
Quote:
Originally Posted by telecaster View Post

Your solution of matching the imput impedance is clever, but aren't you just adding iron to the signal path?

The capacitor is not the limitation per se, you still have to deal with it as OTL amplifier MUST have capacitor in the path.

Also speaking of the capacitance of the power filter section, like Wall-E and I we upgraded the capacitors, and the power of the amp, IS the amp itself.

Choosing good capacitor solution sure IS the solution.

Electrolytic caps is not good, but the 339 has bypassed them.

I choosed to have film caps all over at the output, and that is the solution that the designer of the 339 made for his custom amps.

Yes it most definitely does add another component to the output signal path and changes the sonic character as a result.   I guess the real question then is what yields a better result a bigger output capacitor or OT coupling?  one of these days I still may try an output capacitor increase.  These amps are simple enough that little component changes can yield big improvements.  Also we need to make clear my solution was one for the 337, with 16-65 ohm cans.  So I wanted something I could go back and forth with between the HD580, RS1 and K701... and even IEMs if I so desire.  The 339 is a completely different layout and looks like it has more room for additional caps.

 

A capacitance increase was my first choice, but I just couldn't figure out a way to fit the additional ~200ufd in the 337 chassis.

 

I might upgrade my power filter caps too... mine are still stock, but I'm content at least for now.


Edited by kramer5150 - 3/18/13 at 4:31pm
post #1602 of 2404
Do you mean the caps need to be increased for low impedance phones ie he500? By another 200uf?

That's the max rating that one can replace for the 339 chassis?
post #1603 of 2404
Quote:
Originally Posted by snip3r77 View Post

Do you mean the caps need to be increased for low impedance phones ie he500? By another 200uf?

That's the max rating that one can replace for the 339 chassis?

Not sure about the he500.  But for grados with the earlier model DV337 yes (IMHO).  The 51ufd feeding the 32 ohm impedance results in a high pass filter within the audible spectrum.  There's a deep-bass rolloff below ~30-35 Hz.  Later model 337 amps as well as the newer 337SE and current 339 addressed this by substantially increasing the output coupling capacitance.


Edited by kramer5150 - 3/18/13 at 6:25pm
post #1604 of 2404
So you were saying stock components are optimized ( based on value ) but if one is going for exotic/boutique caps we need to mod themselves?

What is needed to be done is actually tube rolling?
post #1605 of 2404

So you were saying stock components are optimized ( based on value )

No I did not say that, it was not implied on my part either.  I do not know why the 337 designers chose output capacitance of 51ufd.

 

but if one is going for exotic/boutique caps we need to mod themselves?
If one feels the need for components "better" than OEM then... yes DIY mods are the only way, as others have done.


What is needed to be done is actually tube rolling?

I never said or implied that either.


Edited by kramer5150 - 3/18/13 at 8:59pm
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