Great remarks tru blu. What's your thinking on the inimitable Sam Rivers, who sort of came up with that earlier generation of trane and sonny, but went further? And I love Ornette and his descendants.
- Ed
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Great remarks tru blu. What's your thinking on the inimitable Sam Rivers, who sort of came up with that earlier generation of trane and sonny, but went further? And I love Ornette and his descendants.
- Ed
I find Roy Ayers and Art Blakey to be my favourites.
But, i'm a percussionist, so it's expected :3
There's always an exception, isn't there? Luvvv Sam Rivers…and he's still vital. I was just marveling at Black Stars, the great disc he made in the '00s with young pianist Jason Moran. Brilliant…
John Coltrane - Interstellar Space.
tru_blu, you are so shockingly wrong about Trane not being comfortable playing out that if I were to meet you in real life I would challenge you to a duel. Luckily, your mention of Jason Moran's Black Stars makes up for it, as that is my favorite album of the past ten, and maybe even twenty, years. Rivers is fantastic throughout. The new Moran "Ten" is also spectacular.
It's so hard to pick one record as a favorite (and certainly as "best") for any of these guys, maybe especially Miles, given his metamorphoses. There's so much in the way of politics involved, the jazz wars, what's "real jazz" etc etc.
Others, too -- Coltrane has some similar sorts of career nodes, though without the electric instruments those changes are not so sharply etched.
I think "Kind of Blue" is getting some short shrift here -- it was hugely important historically. It wasn't the first "modal jazz" record, but it's the one that got some attention and moved the music's direction. I love "Tribute to Jack Johnson" too -- among my favorite John McLaughlin performances on record, and I am a guitar freak. Agharta for some of the same reasons (and Pete Cosey's work on that is something guitarists are still trying to catch up on). But then the earlier stuff, the last Prestige records and first Columbia, are in their own way as strong statements on group improvisation and freedom as what came later at the Plugged Nickel or with the electric bands. And then again all the studio records that were done with that Plugged Nickel band. That quintet was crazy great, and a case can be made for Wayne Shorter as a -- maybe the -- major composer after Monk. So with Miles it's almost a case of "pick a favorite era to listen to." I'd recomend starting before the fusion era to learn what's great, here, just because it's less familiar to most rock fans.
I think Coltrane's "Interstellar Space" is a masterpiece, too, but wouldn't call it "the one". I don't think there is such a thing with someone as wide-ranging as Coltrane, and certainly his quartet recordings caught more ears, were more influential (for better or worse). I'd point out Crescent and A Love Supreme for someone new to all this, first. Then Interstellar Space along with Meditations and the criminally ignored First Meditations, maybe. Impressions, too, for something just as intense and somewhat more accessible, a la A Love Supreme.
Absolutely Coltrane and Monk at Carnegie, which was only recently uncovered -- and as a recording, therefore, not very important in terms of influence/history. Of course the history of recorded jazz is not the history of jazz, so that band was important in ways that outmeasure vastly the importance of that recording. Monk's Blue Notes were really radical -- like nothing else. His connection to blues and the stride piano tradition and his absolutely unique and personal approach to it make Monk maybe (borrowing from Martin Williams here) the most important jazz composer after Duke Ellington. Yet, for someone just getting into Monk, I'd recommend "Brilliant Corners" and "Monk's Music" first, just because they're more accessible and in better sound. The studio Coltrane with Monk is nowhere as indicative of what was going on, and what Coltrane learned from Monk, as the Carnegie Hall recording, so yeah I'd push this one for the 15th time in this thread.
Mingus has been talked about pretty well for recommendations, I think... there's a slew of "middle period" that are all just brilliant and mostly accessible and thrilling records. "The Black Saint and the Sinner Lady", "Mingus Mingus Mingus Mingus"; "Blues and Roots"; "The Clown". All three of the Candid records. The later band with Don Pullen was crazy great, too, the two "Changes" recordings.
And there's so much other jazz. From 1960 (I think), there was Art Blakey's "Free For All", which is one of the most intense, powerful, passionate blasts of expression ever to get caught on record. The first two tunes already show what a composer Wayne Shorter was, and this was before he joined Miles' band and gets credited with that mind.
More insular, to his detriment, but otherwise as unique and knotty as Monk was Herbie Nichols, who had a handful of recordings. Then after Monk there was Andrew Hill, the next guy I'd put in that succession of composition. But this is random. I could go on about Joe Henderson, Ornette Coleman, Phineas Newborn, Archie Shepp... really so many tributaries to follow with so much genius down all of them, the list of names goes on.
Anyway, there are easily 600 jazz records to just list as "important" to know about. (OK, I just picked a number out of thin air, but I mean "a lot"). It's crazy how for a few generations, there were not merely "good players" but real geniuses, a LOT of them, with major recording contracts, working with eachother in these mutating recombinant line-ups... the 40s, 50s, 60s were just dense with major artists making major statements. It was not just 1 or 3 or 4 guys.
Edit -- and the mentions of Jason Moran -- I just had to mention that I went to see a Bill Frisell Trio show in L.A. last month, with Jason Moran. And at intermission, because he wanted to bum a cigarette, Moran just started talking to me and my buddy (who was smoking), spent about 30 minutes with him talking about music a bit, and travel a lot. Very cool guy. And being a Frisell fanatic too, it was really cool to hear Moran talk about playing with "that guy", who pretty much forced a higher state of awareness and spontaneity on his fellow musicians.
The Web's an amazing thing, isn't it? We give ourselves screen names and Voila!, we're all authorities. Re: "Out"-Coltrane: That's my story, and I'm stickin' to it.
…and Choronzon, you nicotine enabler!! Shame on you!! Totally kidding…that's a cool memory.
I don't know how old you are, but to me what's funniest about it is that jazz clubs were once synonymous with smoking.
Another thing you've written bears repeating, though, because I think it's kinda misunderstood in the post-academic jazz climate of today, where it seems like "everybody can play" (I'm borrowing from the drummer Billy Hart, who said precisely those words to me):
"It's crazy how for a few generations, there were not merely "good players" but real geniuses, a LOT of them, with major recording contracts, working with each other in these mutating recombinant line-ups... the 40s, 50s, 60s were just dense with major artists making major statements. It was not just 1 or 3 or 4 guys."
Let me just throw out the name of another genius: Lucky Thompson. He's the cat who gave Trane the idea to double on soprano sax. My other mission in life is to get as many people as possible into Lucky Strikes.
O yay, some Sam I don't have! Thanks guys. I think Sam is only contested for number of entries in my collection by Richard Thompson (but Sam wins).
- Ed

John Coltrane - Interstellar Space.
tru_blu, you are so shockingly wrong about Trane not being comfortable playing out that if I were to meet you in real life I would challenge you to a duel. Luckily, your mention of Jason Moran's Black Stars makes up for it, as that is my favorite album of the past ten, and maybe even twenty, years. Rivers is fantastic throughout. The new Moran "Ten" is also spectacular.
Is this thread gonna die before Thelonious gets another vote?
I don't think a sum total of 25 votes is a representative sample, which makes most of these polls somewhat redundant. Speaking for myself, I am not familiar with much of the work of the subjects of this thread, so my own vote is not really worthwhile anyway. Others may be in the same boat :-/
Still, some stimulating and useful posts are made, so not all is lost.
Geez Louise, this is head-fi, not the Smithsonian Institute. Under the circumstances, there's really no harm done in voting your ignorance, is there? I mean, to some degree these polls are also popularity contests, so if quite a few people have this but not that, that can also be telling. I can guarantee that one or two of those folks who voted for Miles Davis probably don't have a whole lot of Monk or Mingus…if you ask me, all participation is good.

Geez Louise, this is head-fi, not the Smithsonian Institute. Under the circumstances, there's really no harm done in voting your ignorance, is there? I mean, to some degree these polls are also popularity contests, so if quite a few people have this but not that, that can also be telling. I can guarantee that one or two of those folks who voted for Miles Davis probably don't have a whole lot of Monk or Mingus…if you ask me, all participation is good.
yeah, that's why I voted, despite my ignorance
geez yourself!

Geez Louise, this is head-fi, not the Smithsonian Institute. Under the circumstances, there's really no harm done in voting your ignorance, is there? I mean, to some degree these polls are also popularity contests, so if quite a few people have this but not that, that can also be telling. I can guarantee that one or two of those folks who voted for Miles Davis probably don't have a whole lot of Monk or Mingus…if you ask me, all participation is good.
yeah, that's why I voted, despite my ignorance
geez yourself!
Quote:
Much appreciated…x2!
Just ordered Coltrane and Monk at Carnegie, and Kind of Blue on SACD. Can't wait!
I'd love to hear your impressions of the contrast between the redbook and SACD (unless they're not hybrid and you can't). The redbook Kind of Blue, pretty much in all releases since the speed correction in the first "Super Bit Mapping" gold disc, have been pretty great.