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beyerdynamic T5p: Photos and first impressions. - Page 51

post #751 of 1488
I have listened extensively to the Stax and Hd800 and in truth though they have the edge in some respects I would still go for these or the T1's over them as truthfully the sound quality increase does not match the price increase. I own some Stax and love the brand and Sennhiesers were my first serious headphone and I love them as well but over all when one takes into account the costs the Beyers have the advantage.

And whilst these do not need an amp like all higher end gear they rise to what a good quality amp and source can do.

Looking at your system to be frank the headphones are far too good for it, it's not the headphones under performing but the system driving them. That's not to knock what you have but it is an important lesson in system synergy.

Adding one truly great thing will not alter something that is not there in the first place, in fact, in my experience it makes it worse.

I think the biggest issue I see on this forum is lack of system synergy and when that happens a product can get lambasted due to the inadequacies of the system feeding it.

You actually might be better off with the DT1350's which give a good idea of what their bigger brothers do but in my experience are more forgiving of lesser sources.
post #752 of 1488

I agree, I think he's a DT1350 kind of guy, but he will lose out on that soundstage of the T5p. Maybe a Grado GS1000i is more to his liking as well.
 


Edited by brunk - 4/24/13 at 5:03pm
post #753 of 1488

Just out of curiosity, has anyone had the opportunity to compare the T5p to LFF's Paradox mod? I've read a lot of really stratospheric praise about the detail and balance those cans bring to the table, so I'm naturally highly skeptical. (This is Head-Fi after all). Anybody had a chance to listen to the two of 'em? 

post #754 of 1488

This is an okay earphone if price is not in the consideration. For 1k+usd , this is a huge disappointment . After 35-40 hours of usage of T5p, it is still T5p with greater extend of the soundstage in terms of space where we perceive the sound wave generated. I compared sided by side with sony mdr nc033 with fixed type of song in specific time interval to observe their differences. As follows,

Source:Asus Xonar D2x
Power: Cooler master UCP 1100watts
Music Quality : FLAC
Music genre comparison : Baroque classical, rock, pop rock, vocaloid, metal
T5p > NC033:
+Cleaner background
+Deep Low
+Clean Low
+The low doesn't really interfere the mids
+Slightly better refined details on the vocals
+In overal, more lively.
++Soundstage in overall is in another league in comparison.
i.Width is at least x1.5, ii.Depth is at least x1.2, iii.Center point is clear, iv. The results from i,ii and iii lead to great instrumentals positioning and imaging, v. music instruments separation and layering slightly better

T5p<NC033
-Low presence of the bass
-Weak impact and pulse from the bass
-Bad tone transition from mid to high frequency
-Mid slightly not smooth
-The high and treble is spiky and varies if relate to high frequency response
-Bad driver matching between left and right. Variation is prominent in the low frequency, an extreme from mids and high from about 20-100hz , about 2khz and 10khz and above respectively.
-Timbre ad decay is disappointing
-Overall tone is not smooth and sometimes ms of spiking of transition of tone is observable from ears.

I auditioned, Dt880pro and liked it and made a whim decision solely from the review from headfi, avguide, wired, youtube and so on with many positive feedbacks that T5p is another league from dt series without auditioning it myself and have huge expectation from T5p. It turns out ......


In short, 
Extremely disappointed with the T5p. 

Thank you for your time, if you ever read through it and sorry if I made any mistakes since this is my very first headphones and upgrade from IE8.

 

post #755 of 1488
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paquarius View Post

This is an okay earphone if price is not in the consideration. For 1k+usd , this is a huge disappointment . After 35-40 hours of usage of T5p, it is still T5p with greater extend of the soundstage in terms of space where we perceive the sound wave generated. I compared sided by side with sony mdr nc033 with fixed type of song in specific time interval to observe their differences. As follows,

Source:Asus Xonar D2x
Power: Cooler master UCP 1100watts
Music Quality : FLAC
Music genre comparison : Baroque classical, rock, pop rock, vocaloid, metal
T5p > NC033:
+Cleaner background
+Deep Low
+Clean Low
+The low doesn't really interfere the mids
+Slightly better refined details on the vocals
+In overal, more lively.
++Soundstage in overall is in another league in comparison.
i.Width is at least x1.5, ii.Depth is at least x1.2, iii.Center point is clear, iv. The results from i,ii and iii lead to great instrumentals positioning and imaging, v. music instruments separation and layering slightly better

T5p<NC033
-Low presence of the bass
-Weak impact and pulse from the bass
-Bad tone transition from mid to high frequency
-Mid slightly not smooth
-The high and treble is spiky and varies if relate to high frequency response
-Bad driver matching between left and right. Variation is prominent in the low frequency, an extreme from mids and high from about 20-100hz , about 2khz and 10khz and above respectively.
-Timbre ad decay is disappointing
-Overall tone is not smooth and sometimes ms of spiking of transition of tone is observable from ears.

I auditioned, Dt880pro and liked it and made a whim decision solely from the review from headfi, avguide, wired, youtube and so on with many positive feedbacks that T5p is another league from dt series without auditioning it myself and have huge expectation from T5p. It turns out ......


In short, 
Extremely disappointed with the T5p. 

Thank you for your time, if you ever read through it and sorry if I made any mistakes since this is my very first headphones and upgrade from IE8.

 

 

Did you use a dedicated amp or did you just drive it straight from the D2X? I ask because I have the STX and I find the amp section poor. I don't even think the D2X has an amp section as powerful as the STX?

 

Despite being 32Ohms, the T5p are said to perform better when amped properly.


Edited by Bloodflowerz - 4/30/13 at 5:26am
post #756 of 1488
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paquarius View Post

This is an okay earphone if price is not in the consideration. For 1k+usd , this is a huge disappointment . After 35-40 hours of usage of T5p, it is still T5p with greater extend of the soundstage in terms of space where we perceive the sound wave generated. I compared sided by side with sony mdr nc033 with fixed type of song in specific time interval to observe their differences. As follows,

[..]

 

I'd say give it another 150 hours and try again. That may not fix all of the issues (in particular the channel imbalance sounds like a concern), but these headphones do benefit from burn in.

post #757 of 1488

Vocaloid sounds disturbing.

 

What about the leather cushions? We can all appreciate those.

post #758 of 1488
Paquarius.
Sorry I did not get back to your PM before you wrote here.

I had to research the equipment your using and it confirms my initial thoughts. This is not so much about power, I am sure what you have can power these headphones great. Simply put, what your hearing is not the fault of the headphone.
In fact it is because the headphones are so good at reproducing subtleties that your having the problem your having and this is really important and often glossed over here and comes back to what I said previously.

just buying a great headphone is not the answer. In fact, the better the headphone the better the amp and source should be. So, in this case the sound card your using simply is not of good enough quality for this application. It may be great for home theater or gaming but for listening to high quality music reproduction, well, all that your throwing on the poor old T5P's back is actually what is wrong with your source!

The headphones being faithful reproducers of what they are given are simply reproducing what your feeding them with!

I know Beyer says you can listen right out of a device and yes, I have tried, they sound good out of my HiFiMan HM-801, really good actually but then they are being fed a source that has excellent musical reproduction qualities so they show that.

Plugged right into my old iTouch they do a good job also but they do show the limits of the iTouch.

If you got a decent external DAC, say the new Meridian or a Centrance or even the audiquest one and plugged them into that connected to your computer I feel sure you would be hearing something very different coming out of those headphones.. I know as I recently tried the Meridian and while not as good as my 801/TU-05 set up it sounded pretty darned good.

I am not surprised the Sonys sounded better, they are masking all the inadequacies of your source, thats the great thing you see. The Sonys being less revealing are a better system match for you.

So, to summarize.

System matching is all. The T5P's as good as they are cannot make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. I am not denigrating your system, I am sure for what it was intended it is good but for high quality music reproduction you have to look elsewhere to really do the T5P's justice.

There is a misconception about high end HiFi, A lot of people do just as you have done, purchase one good piece and then use it with equipment not up to the job of allowing it to shine. People think that the more you spend, the higher quality the component then it should be able to do everything and be able to make something bad good. Quite the opposite is true.

It is like having two horses, one a good old reliable horse that you will go out on the range with, it will do everything well but not excel at anything, it is reliable and can be depended upon but at the end of the day it has just done its job and no more. That is your Sony and Asus.

The T5P is more like a thoroughbred race horse, designed for one thing and one thing only, to show up and deliver the goods the best way how, your in for the ride of your life and it will not be forgotten easily but try to put a cart to that horse, or take it out on the range for a days worth of round up and thing thing will buck and kick and be tiring and not nice to live with.

It boils down to the old adage.. Horses for Courses!

I hope that helps you understand this more. If you have no desire to change the source equipment then I would suggest sending the T5P's back and keep the Sonys and enjoy what you have got and you will as it will reproduce music and be nice to listen to. If however you want to truly listen and absorb the music as the artist intended then you have to think about changing your set up so the T5P's can truly show you what they have got!
post #759 of 1488

@Bloodflowerz. No, I did not use any dedicated amp and I personally think they have adequate power to drive them properly based on P=10^((Y-X)) where Y is the maximum SPL and X is the sensitivity. To attain excellent excellent sound quality, we need minimum 120 dB of SPL eg thunderstorm.After that we look at P=IV Where we usually use I as mA and V as mV respectively rather than SI units. Amp is put into use if inadequate of power is supplied. In this case, I doubt so based on my rig.Regardless, I was deciding to buy justaudio aha-120 for T5p. However, the performance is somewhat comparable to a 50USD earphone with many draw backs that NC033 can deliver. In the end. I think and eventually ponder the factors, outcome before and after and came to the conclusion that T5p don't deserve since T5p is barely even 10% better than a 50USD earphone.

@PleasantSounds. I have had enough with them, T5p should be preform significantly better even without longer usage time and burn in. The later improvement is welcomed and a plus. To sound comparable with many bad aspects even after 35+hours burn in to a 50 usd earphone is not acceptable to me. As you, stated bad driver matching can never recover from burning in, this is true with how they preform more or less. 

@AJHeadfi. I agree and disagree based on the tracks given or being played. The leather cushion are soft, nice and all but I don't really care about the comfort if sound quality is not even delivered.

 

post #760 of 1488
Just to clarify, power does not mean sound quality. This is not about the power but about as I said, the quality being fed the headphones and that is your problem. Get a decent DAC as the ones i have mentioned or the excellent and well reviewed Just Audio uHA-120D and you will hear a difference!
post #761 of 1488

@ ianmedium, don't be and thanks for taking your time to reply. 
Can you explained more in details about the inadequancy of My DAC like signal to noise ratio, Total harmonic distortion, frequenccy response, sample rate and so on.

Indedd P=/= sound quality, despite P is the one that generate SPL to deliver the sound quality. Without sufficient power lead to lack of SPL and this directly and significantly affects the sound quality being delivered to your ears.
I thought the main idea of amp is this SPL. The sound quality is dependant on the technologies of the headphone and the source.

Instead of the general layman term, can you explain it more in detail what is the term match and what do I need to match even since you proposed that my power is not the problem and we can assumed Power, voltage, current, ohm can be the constants.

One of the reason I bought t5p is the transparency and faithful reproduction from the source. I'm still in no stand to fully, completely and or solidly say they don't live up to what they do. I'm very positive that XONAR D2x  has a more capable DAC in comparison to iPod touch 3 64gb with wolfson DAC. I'm pretty I can differentiate revealing and bad sounds, unless I have any undiscovered hearing disorders. I will put it this way, Since, T5p is revealing and should be a much capable headphones compared to the sony NC033. Instead of comparing which is better, we compared the magnitude as in differences. Straight of out of the ipod, They are comparable. As I change it to desktop rig, The sound quality is a huge leap forward, cleaner background, significantly wider soundstage, and greater detail in frequency response, greater volume output to input ratio, less distortion. By right, due to its revealing nature and capability of driver, shouldn't T5p show greater differences in the production of the quality from original sources as compared to NC033 regardless of how bad the source and how good the source is?
Shockingly, comparison side by side still show they are similar in what I've put in their pros and cons.
I have even cheaper nokia earphones to add into the insult to T5p. I tried to delude myself as stated that NC033 masking of all the inadequancy of my source, but it is not when the cheaper earphones from nokia can't even handle more than 60% of what NC033 can do in terms of detail throughout the frequency response not to mention the soundstaging ,timbre,decay, tonal transition and so on. 
In addition, I doubt that amp can resolve the badly matched left and right channel the unnatural transition of frequency response throughout the range excluding the low and bass department. Not to mention the, decay and timbre in terms of their realism as it is highly dependant on the transducer itself.

I will be very thankful if I can get more information regarding the matching technically that doesn't rule in Power into the equation as you stated instead of literal description that still give me a very vague understanding on the mentioned.

This is the one of the most friendly and almost free from calculation source that i refer regarding the amping .

http://www.fiio.com.cn/news/index.aspx?ID=100000046224759&page=1

T
hank you very much again for the time ianmedium.

post #762 of 1488
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paquarius View Post

@Bloodflowerz. No, I did not use any dedicated amp and I personally think they have adequate power to drive them properly based on P=10^((Y-X)) where Y is the maximum SPL and X is the sensitivity. To attain excellent excellent sound quality, we need minimum 120 dB of SPL eg thunderstorm.After that we look at P=IV Where we usually use I as mA and V as mV respectively rather than SI units. Amp is put into use if inadequate of power is supplied. In this case, I doubt so based on my rig.Regardless, I was deciding to buy justaudio aha-120 for T5p. However, the performance is somewhat comparable to a 50USD earphone with many draw backs that NC033 can deliver. In the end. I think and eventually ponder the factors, outcome before and after and came to the conclusion that T5p don't deserve since T5p is barely even 10% better than a 50USD earphone.

 

 

Written like a true Physicist. :) It's been a while since my A Level Physics days.....

post #763 of 1488

@Bloodflowerz.
Nice, Cambridge A-Level here. Thank you earlier for the suggestion regarding the amping. 
Regardless, they are so bad that I need to return them soon if they don't preform in the final coming tests.
 

post #764 of 1488

If you do not need closed headphones you might consider the T1 instead. Same price. Have you tried the T1 and what is your impression of the T1? 

post #765 of 1488

Paquarius,

if you're still interested in the T5p I'd suggest to try it with another DAC/amp just to be sure. Of course its possible that you got a defective unit, so that might be another thing to check. Audible channel imbalance might be an indication to that end...

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