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Double blind test 128Kbps vs lossless? I'll be amazed if you can tell much difference

post #1 of 257
Thread Starter 

People say mp3s are harder to tell with modern music, which are already compressed and poorly mastered. It is apparently easier to tell when you have slower music (especially classical music). 

 

OK, I'll put that to the test here. I'll be amazed if you can tell which one is lossless and which one is mp3 by listening ONLY. When you report back, please tell us the equipment you're using, and what difference you heard between the two. 

 

The track is Mozart's Eine Kleine Nachtmusik. 

 

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=6UMAKHXT

 

Mediafire link

 

http://redirectingat.com/?id=2303X597179&xs=1&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mediafire.com%2F%3Fzzj1wdnom2m&sref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.head-fi.org%2Fforum%2Fthread%2F498684%2Fdouble-blind-test-128kbps-vs-lossless-i-ll-be-amazed-if-you-can-tell-much-difference%2F30%23post_6760111


Edited by chengbin - 7/16/10 at 8:38pm
post #2 of 257

If good ol' uncle Charlie here could DBT 320 VS lossless then that's all the scientific evidence I'll ever need!  He's the least craziest man here.


Edited by SP Wild - 6/22/10 at 7:37am
post #3 of 257

He even DBT something strange in his digital inputs.

post #4 of 257

Behold, dear subjects.  For the chosen one, as foretold by a once wise prophet.  Whose gaze has befallen upon us.  But no more!  


Edited by SP Wild - 6/22/10 at 7:47am
post #5 of 257

What encoder are you using?  It's very good if that's just 128kbps.  I think I can tell a difference between them, but I'm not sure which is which, since I think I've seen a live violin performance maybe one in my life.  I'll try ABXing them with foobar later and see what I come up with.

 

Total Bithead > SE530

post #6 of 257

I'll give it a listen but if I recall Eine Kleine Nachtmusik doesn't have much going on in the upper registers like flutes, cymbals and what not.  I might be listening for something that isn't there on either track.  You're last MP3 sample also cleaned up the mids IMO which was surprising. 

 

Edit - LOL, you picked the first movement.  I hardly call that slow.  That's also not exactly a 20 bit master either.  


Edited by Anaxilus - 6/23/10 at 11:52pm
post #7 of 257

Haven't listened to your track but ive done ABX tests on foobar with 192kbs and flac before and managed to get 100% (for like 8 rounds? Got bored after that.) Id admit it wasn't easy and I had to listen pretty hard for the differences though, but the difference is there. You just have to know what to look out for (i think this is really important, and is probably one of the reason why majority of the young folks out there see no point in upgrading their ibuds for better equipment. If you don't look out for the improvements you won't appreciate them)

 

MP3 compressions usually take away some of the high end so the easiest way is to look out for the loss of airiness and edge. (Usually the loss of air is more obvious).

 

Plus I have mild hearing loss . You healthy guys should be doing better!


Edited by lazybum - 6/25/10 at 2:44am
post #8 of 257

 

Quote:
Haven't listened to your track but............I have mild hearing loss

 

Yeah man. We noticed that. Thx anyway.

 

Fail here. :(

 

Foobar+ABX, MOTU Ultralite Hybrid. Adam A3X.


Edited by RonaldDumsfeld - 6/25/10 at 6:02am
post #9 of 257

It's always harder to tell with classic.

 

Try something heavier, like one of the very few properly mastered metal albums maybe?

Haven't tested it yet, but don't think I will fail, many of the fakes I've encountered were obvious even before analyzing spectral or aucdtect.

post #10 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalamar View Post

It's always harder to tell with classic.

 

Try something heavier, like one of the very few properly mastered metal albums maybe?

Haven't tested it yet, but don't think I will fail, many of the fakes I've encountered were obvious even before analyzing spectral or aucdtect.


Lawl, failed with a LP rip of metal v6 (~140kbps) vs flac. But then my hearing drops off sharply past 15khz and completely at 16.5k. I can at least admit something is wrong with my ears besides the mild tinnitus. Guns are bad for your ears, especially when you have a very loud fan running all day and night in the summer.

 

Note: said fan was running when I did the test. Too hot to shut it off ;_;

post #11 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalamar View Post


Lawl, failed with a LP rip of metal v6 (~140kbps) vs flac. But then my hearing drops off sharply past 15khz and completely at 16.5k. I can at least admit something is wrong with my ears besides the mild tinnitus. Guns are bad for your ears, especially when you have a very loud fan running all day and night in the summer.

 

Note: said fan was running when I did the test. Too hot to shut it off ;_;

 

At least you had the guts to admit it online.  Kudos.  I haven't done any testing since I got my Sflo2 and M50's, hmmm....
 

post #12 of 257

Whilst it seems the information is all there on a lower bit rate I find that it lacks emotion which of course is not quantifiable with science!

 

With lossless I seem to be more moved and envolved with the music, with lower bit rates it just feels like number crunching!

 

I have had very revealing headphones over the years but have ended up selling them as I just find them not as musical. My IE8's and Stax allow me to be involved with the music, give enough detail for me and the lossless adds to that. It may not be perfect but it get's me into the music which is the whole point really!

post #13 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianmedium View Post

Whilst it seems the information is all there on a lower bit rate I find that it lacks emotion which of course is not quantifiable with science!

 

With lossless I seem to be more moved and envolved with the music, with lower bit rates it just feels like number crunching!


This applies to blind tests as well, right? After all, that's the topic of the thread.

 

Could you show us your results?

post #14 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Head Injury View Post


This applies to blind tests as well, right? After all, that's the topic of the thread.

 

Could you show us your results?


I am to scientific measurments what iBud's are to high end Audio reproduction! My results are purely from my own listening experience, bare in mind also I am 46 so I do not have the ears of a 20 year old, Probably my thoughts are irrelevant but they count to me!

post #15 of 257

The "1" is probably the lossless track, but i admit i'm not able to tell any difference by listening alone...

 

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