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My DIY electrostatic headphones - Page 112

post #1666 of 1678
Quote:
Originally Posted by chinsettawong View Post

 

About glue, the best glue that I've tried is still rubber glue (contact cement).  Try and you'll see why.

 

Wachara C.

 

Thanks again Wachara for your continuous help !

 

My present issue is that I don't know what is rubber glue (contact cement)...

Unfortunately.  

 

Which of the following will be close to your own glue ?

 

http://www.pattex.fr/fr/produits-pattex/colle-contact.html

 

Last but not least, none of the glues I've found, is conductive... My PCB rings with their copper trace have to be bond to the coated Mylar, but keeping the electrical contact... The only solution is to use a conductive glue, isn't ?

 

OndesX

post #1667 of 1678
Quote:
Originally Posted by ondesx View Post
 

 

Thanks again Wachara for your continuous help !

 

My present issue is that I don't know what is rubber glue (contact cement)...

Unfortunately.  

 

Which of the following will be close to your own glue ?

 

http://www.pattex.fr/fr/produits-pattex/colle-contact.html

 

Last but not least, none of the glues I've found, is conductive... My PCB rings with their copper trace have to be bond to the coated Mylar, but keeping the electrical contact... The only solution is to use a conductive glue, isn't ?

 

OndesX

I'm curious too, based from the pics I've gathered on the interweb, it seems to be mostly used to glue wood on wood...

 

BTW, Where are you based in France (feel free to reply by PM or not at all if you feel like doing so) ? I'd love to hear your cans once they're done :p:beerchug:

post #1668 of 1678
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ondesx View Post
 

 

Thanks again Wachara for your continuous help !

 

My present issue is that I don't know what is rubber glue (contact cement)...

Unfortunately.  

 

Which of the following will be close to your own glue ?

 

http://www.pattex.fr/fr/produits-pattex/colle-contact.html

 

Last but not least, none of the glues I've found, is conductive... My PCB rings with their copper trace have to be bond to the coated Mylar, but keeping the electrical contact... The only solution is to use a conductive glue, isn't ?

 

OndesX

 

You've got it all wrong.  I glue the Mylar to only one spacer.  The other spacer uses its copper to charge up the diaphragm.  I don't glue this one to the diaphragm.  My drivers are pressed together using non conductive screws.  

 

By the way, I want to show you my coated diaphragm:

 

 

I coated the diaphragm with the floor cleaner.  When it's dried, it actually left a haze on the diaphragm.  I then rubbed it off with a piece of cloth, and the diaphragm was very transparent.

 

 

Wachara C.

post #1669 of 1678
Quote:
Originally Posted by chinsettawong View Post
 

 

You've got it all wrong.  I glue the Mylar to only one spacer.  The other spacer uses its copper to charge up the diaphragm.  I don't glue this one to the diaphragm.  My drivers are pressed together using non conductive screws.  

 

 

Wachara C.

Thank you for this beautiful pic and your explanations.

 

These are the drawbacks here : I initially thought to this option in my theoretical approach, but of course there is an asymmetry between the two sides of the diaphragm, since obviously one side is free of bond whereas the other has an additional thickness due to the glue. Secondly, with 0.5 thickness of spacers another issue seems to be the rigidity of the ring compared to the force imposed by the tensioned Mylar... 

 

Incidentally, aside of these two issues, I will use nylon screws (2 mm for the diameter) and I'm not sure these screws might press correctly all the parts, keeping a good flatness for each and a perfect homogeneity all around of the space between the stators and the membrane !

 

The only cure to these two drawbacks, are first, use a very thin layer of glue, while keeping a solid bond, secondly use a reasonable tension for the Mylar in order to avoid any folding of the spacer ring.

 

For the second point, I have  perhaps an idea to circumvent this eventuality : use the stator and the outer ring, as a support to keep both structures as flat as possible before cutting the Mylar. The thickness of the glue remains an unknown for me : I don't know how the difference in the distance D/S might impact the "balanced" operation of the cell. Do you have an idea ?

 

The pressing force will be a surprise when all the 8 screws will be installed in the final step !...

 

OndesX


Edited by ondesx - 12/5/14 at 9:42am
post #1670 of 1678
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ondesx View Post
 

Thank you for this beautiful pic and your explanations.

 

These are the drawbacks here : I initially thought to this option in my theoretical approach, but of course there is an asymmetry between the two sides of the diaphragm, since obviously one side is free of bond whereas the other has an additional thickness due to the glue. Secondly, with 0.5 thickness of spacers another issue seems to be the rigidity of the ring compared to the force imposed by the tensioned Mylar... 

 

Incidentally, aside of these two issues, I will use nylon screws (2 mm for the diameter) and I'm not sure these screws might press correctly all the parts, keeping a good flatness for each and a perfect homogeneity all around of the space between the stators and the membrane !

 

The only cure to these two drawbacks, are first, use a very thin layer of glue, while keeping a solid bond, secondly use a reasonable tension for the Mylar in order to avoid any folding of the spacer ring.

 

For the second point, I have  perhaps an idea to circumvent this eventuality : use the stator and the outer ring, as a support to keep both structures as flat as possible before cutting the Mylar. The thickness of the glue remains an unknown for me : I don't know how the difference in the distance D/S might impact the "balanced" operation of the cell. Do you have an idea ?

 

The pressing force will be a surprise when all the 8 screws will be installed in the final step !...

 

OndesX

 

Hi OndesX,

 

Don't think too much.  Just make them.  :wink_face:

 

Wachara C.

post #1671 of 1678

OK Wachara

 

Let's go !... :wink_face: 

 

OndesX

post #1672 of 1678
Quote:
Originally Posted by chinsettawong View Post
 

For your first pair, I would suggest that you stick with what I suggested.  You might not have known, but it took me a very long and frustrating time to actually find something that's cheap and works.  As for me, I have stopped trying to find other coating materials.  I like what I use and I'll stick to them.  I wasted too much time in the past without anybody giving me good guidances.  I just hope you guys listen to me and just make your headphones. 

  Yesterday / Today I looked for the floor cleaner.  As far as I can tell from the picture the ingredients are:

Linear Alkyl benzene Sulphonate (LAS)

and Sodium Lauryl Ether Sulfate

 

 Which here in the USA manufacturers do not have to list the ingredients on the bottle.

 

Also there are many names a chemical can be named as. (20+)

 

From what I could find on google they all seem to have very complicated formulas here.

 

so gave up on that, again.  And just bought some.

 

and it works, we'll see how long.

 

If it fails I will try another.

 

one side is ACL Staticide 6300 and the other is Pledge:D

 

listening to these with a KGST tonight:o2smile:

Ingredients are:

Fragrance(s)/perfume(s) 000000-00-1  
Isopropanol 000067-63-0  
Diethylene glycol ethyl ether 000111-90-0 1.0-5.0
Ethylene glycol n-hexyl ether 000112-25-4  
Monoethanolamine (MEA) 000141-43-5  
Propylene glycol butyl ether 005131-66-8  
Water 007732-18-5  
Sodium dodecylbenzenesulfonate 025155-30-0  
Cocamidopropyl betaine 086438-79-1  
D-Glucopyranose, oligomeric, C9-11-alkyl glycosides 132778-08-6  
Liquitint Bright Yellow Dye 888888-03-7  
Liquitint Sky Blue Dye 888888-03-8

 

Yea I only know what two of those are:)

 

Tomorrow I might mount those pads............

 

Thanks all


Edited by Congo5 - 12/6/14 at 6:58pm
post #1673 of 1678
Thread Starter 

Hi Congo5,

 

Nice find!  See?  We don't really need to know what the stuff is made of.  If it works, it works.  :L3000:

 

I haven't tried window glass cleaner such as Windex, but I think it'll work too.

 

Wachara C.

post #1674 of 1678
Quote:
Originally Posted by chinsettawong View Post

 We don't really need to know what the stuff is made of.  If it works, it works.  :L3000:

 

I haven't tried window glass cleaner such as Windex, but I think it'll work too.

 

Wachara C.

 

Of course, I agree... The only issue is that we never be able to use the same product, since it is not accessible everywhere !...

 

This is why we need to know the "magic" formula of yours.

 

Perhaps there is only one of the products of interest, but no one knows if it's not all the elements and why not their precise proportions !

 

The customer service might help in giving the formula of your miracle product, don't you think so ?

 

OndesX

post #1675 of 1678

You guys should put your location in your profiles.  If you're not overseas I can give you specific product names to look for.

post #1676 of 1678

Tis done. Location added.

post #1677 of 1678
Thread Starter 
Come on guys! I've been trying to show you that there are a lot of commonly available stuffs that you can use to make a good coating material on the diaphragm. Of course, it's rather difficult to find the exact same product in every country. But I'm sure you can find something useful if you really look around. I would suggest that you go to a computer store and pick up a bottle of computer screen cleaner. The one that says to contain electrostatic discharge should all be OK.

Wachara C.
post #1678 of 1678
Quote:
Originally Posted by chinsettawong View Post

Come on guys! I've been trying to show you that there are a lot of commonly available stuffs that you can use to make a good coating material on the diaphragm. Of course, it's rather difficult to find the exact same product in every country. But I'm sure you can find something useful if you really look around. I would suggest that you go to a computer store and pick up a bottle of computer screen cleaner. The one that says to contain electrostatic discharge should all be OK.

Wachara C.

I can imagine it won't leave much ressidue either as it is likely to be ethanol based.

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