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Do my motherboard's SPDIF outputs go through the onboard sound card? - Page 4

post #46 of 56

Hi Alexander, I didn't mean it agressively and I'm glad you didn't it as such. Tbh, the drastic EQ curves you used to show on the forum really kill the SQ...EQ should only occur for room correction(walls resonances for instance) or middle ear resonances.


A proper DAC is supposed to sound neutral and flat. I wouldn't say that a drastic EQ improves PRaT, all it does is boost/make some frequencies resonate. PRaT is about having speakers/headphones/opamps/gear w/ a very percussive/tight sound. Anyway, yes bang for bucks is huge on most $150 soundcards, no doubt about it...but a proper external DAC galvanically isolated from the computer on an uber-low ripple PSU will allow you to hear far more tiny details. You can get drunk w/ beer, but it's just more pleasant w/ Champagne


a V shaped EQ can be fun, like those "loudness" buttons...but this is not HiFi and it does kill the SQ. Headphones like the D2000 are very famous, when they actually have very recessed mids....yet, some ppl hype them to death as if they were giant killers

Edited by leeperry - 6/20/10 at 11:43am
post #47 of 56
Originally Posted by xnor View Post


That's right. But why feed the DAC with something different than 16/44.1 if that's the format of the music. You'll pretty sure get worse results from doing so.

are you saying that upsampling actually degrades the sound?  it supposed to do the opposite.

post #48 of 56
Originally Posted by plonter View Post

are you saying that upsampling actually degrades the sound?  it supposed to do the opposite.

OMG, don't start him on upsampling please [:agkklr]


here's a good link: http://www.audioholics.com/education/audio-formats-technology/upsampling-vs-oversampling-for-digital-audio/upsampling-vs-oversampling-for-digital-audio-page-2

 The effects of upsampling are no doubt overstated. By carefully designing the sampler, ADC, digital processing path, and oversampling DAC, the upsampling and asynchronous rate transfer can, in my opinion, be avoided.



Edited by leeperry - 6/20/10 at 12:17pm
post #49 of 56

Thank goodness I invested in a dac with upsampling that can be defeated.  I'm going to have a listen with the Bryston without upsampling. 


My onboard cannot be selected to anything other than 48khz (xp windows) - I removed software upsampling on the player side - however I engaged 48khz upsampling with the Asio options.  What I am listening now is bit perfect with asio upsample 48khz - no upsampling on the Bryston side.  I'll get a new USB cable to listen to the Bryston at bit-perfect 44.1 khz.


The Bryston can optionally upsample all 44.1 to 176khz (known measured error in 176 hardware upsample).  All 48 khz can be optionally upsampled by hardware to 192khz (measures without problems) - seeing I mainly left upsampling on - this explains my problems with generic USB 44.1khz output, hardware upsampled to 176 - and my subjective improvement by going onboard 48khz upsampled to 192 khz.


I'll leave my mind open to the possibility that generic USB is adequate for the most demanding of applications.

post #50 of 56

Trying 16/48 khz USB straight into the dac with no upsampling in the chain. 


I cleaned up the USB connector with some good ol WD40.  Using the D7000 driven by the BCL, there is an obvious difference.  At this stage upsampling looks to be another "synergy" tweak.  I am getting super extended treble with warts an all.  On good recordings, turning off-upsampling seem to be beneficial.  I hear a less euphonic midrange and treble.  The audio image is much stabilised and I detect better "phasing cohesion" - All in all it sounds subjectively cleaner with more precision and "air".  Perhaps upsampling is beneficial to address synergy issues and poorer recordings should benefit.  This is using generic USB - not necessarily inferior to onboard digital.


I am keen to try out the new M2tech evo model and wonder what differences these clock timers will make to the sound.

post #51 of 56

yes, upsampling is a complicated matter...all it does is feeding the DAC chip oversampling stage w/ interpolated data that make the THD/THD+N rates drastically increase(easy to measure with WaveSpectra), making the sound brighter and improving the clarity/stereo imaging...but this will color your audio quite a bit, all your songs will have that "character" added, it might be fun for a little while..but soon enough, there's a good chance you'll get tired of it.

post #52 of 56

Yeah it sounds as if though the signal has been processed artificially.  It separates instruments artificially - it adds height to the soundstage - some instruments come from a hovering spot in mid-air - not a bad effect.  Upsampling switched off - all the instruments are grounded - less separation, but a realistic separation. 


Without a doubt, I feel THD is induced - there is an extra fatigue layer with upsampling on.  These are only my impression with my dac - I cannot speak for other upsampling algorithms.

post #53 of 56

Dear Wild and Plonter (and anyone else it may concern) --


All this is piss in the wind if you're actually enjoying your music instead of listening to your gear. Most of it is piss in the wind, even if you're listening to your gear (but if you are, I suggest professional help.) It all comes down to receiver implementation. SomeDACs sound great with optical input. Some are better with coax. USB became an audiophile darling not because it suddenly rose above its roots as a printer cable, but because it provided a much bigger market for external DACs, but most USB DACs sound great too. With the best DACs, you won't be able to hear the difference. If you can, drop a whopping $200 or so on a Trends UD-10 and battery power supply, or something similar, run USB to that and coax, optical or AES/EBU out. Your pet bat may be able to hear a difference, but you won't.


Upsampling/non-upsampling is the same kind of obsessive-compulsive subject with a similar answer. Don't worry about it. Enjoy the music.



Edited by Phelonious Ponk - 6/25/10 at 5:21am
post #54 of 56

If you've ever been sailing, you should always watch out for piss in the wind.  Wee with the wind, not against it.  You have been forewarned.

post #55 of 56

lol, of course I listen to my gear...the same way I watch my perfectly calibrated DLP projector more than I watch the movies it plays...most movies suck these days, but a big projection screen w/ perfect smoothness and colors is heaven to me


upsampling does change the sound, whether you'll like the change in the long run is up to you...some ppl like to play music in WMP on their realtek and forget about the rest, I envy them sometimes.


and it's all just a hobby, some ppl like cars in their stock form, some others like to improve everything they can to improve their pleasure driving it...the fuel to all is pleasure, some ppl miss that point sometimes I'm afraid.

Edited by leeperry - 6/25/10 at 6:15am
post #56 of 56

Norah Jones live DVD music video is a new reference benchmark for me.  Being able to correlate what I hear to what I see has helped me establish a new point of reference and further hone my acoustic audio memories of my past. 


The only way to know how an audio piece should sound is to match the audio perception to visual cues - I will never carry out any meaningful analysis without this DVD - with realistically live audio recording standards.

Edited by SP Wild - 6/25/10 at 6:32am
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