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K1000 with Sub Woofer

post #1 of 23
Thread Starter 

Hi there

 

I have owned a bass heavy pair of K1000s for a while now and have been completely happy with them. Unfortunately the right driver picked up a distortion on deep bass notes so i sent them to Germany to have them fixed. I bought 2 new drivers to keep them balanced and I'm glad i did because there is a night and day difference between the old and new drivers in my opinion, one of each would have been a nightmare. 

 

My drivers are very green (15hrs max) but i don't expect them to change much now. The good news is the highs and vocals are beautiful, better than i remember. The bad news is the bottom seems to have disappeared. This seems to go along with what other Headfiers have experienced with New Vs Old K1000 drivers so its not a complete suprise.

 

I've been reading up today about integrating a sub woofer into my system and i think this could really work for me if i get it right. That would give me the best of both worlds. The beautiful highs of the new driver and the solid lower end of a dedicated sub.

 

I am using a Unison Unico Integrated Amplifier. It has 2 rows of speaker outs (i use the top four with my K1000s)

Ideally i would like to filter the sound so below a certain value (ie < 80hz) gets directed to the Sub, and everything else goes to the K1000s

Is this possible? I understand the Unico will send the same signal to both the K1000s and the Sub so im worried the K1000 will muddy the lower end stuff.

 

I guess im saying i dont understand how to send the <80Hz to sub & >80 to K1000's

 

I have a Melos Sha Gold floating around, is that going to add any benefit to the system as a preamp?

 

I've read all the posts including the following but it doesn't seem to answer the question

 

http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/174975/k1000-questions

 

Sorry the question is abit scatty, hopefully someone can help.

 

Thanks for reading

 

Pete

post #2 of 23
Thread Starter 

I've done abit more research on this, it looks like i can hook the sub directly to a sub via its Speaker Level Inputs. But then i have to be careful i dont blow the sub by cranking up the volume on the Unico?

Another question, can you put a sub on a computer table? As you can probably tell, i've never used a dedicated sub before.

 

Thanks

post #3 of 23
Thread Starter 

Anyone have any ideas how i can send the <80hz to the sub and >80hz to the headphones? do i need to buy some type of splitter?

post #4 of 23

What you are talking about is called a crossover. A crossover will let you send certain frequencies to different outputs. Some receivers have the crossover built in if they have speaker and SUB out options.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_crossover

 

I unfortunately do not have any recommendations for a crossover although I know that radioshack sells one online. (quality unknown). Others might have to comment on a good standalone crossover, although it is used mainly in speaker set ups, so might have to find someone with that experience.

post #5 of 23
Thread Starter 

Ah thats great, il start reading up on crossovers, thanks for the help toidcans, really appreciate it :)

post #6 of 23
Thread Starter 

Spent another 6 hours reading tonight and i think these are my options

 

Active Crossover straight out of my Dac, things like 

 

behringer_cx3400_002.JPG

http://www.gear4music.com/PA-DJ-and-Lighting/Behringer-CX3400-Pro-Super-X-Crossover/291

A
lot of the above units I've seen look abit low fi and I'm alittle worried about putting this so hi up the audio chain it might running the output of my dac.

 

Another option could be using the tape output (passive) out of my amplifier straight to a sub. Similar to this option is connecting directly from the Speaker rods to a Speaker In on a sub.

 

I'm not so keen on this idea because the K1000s will still be trying to play the bass and i would prefer the dedicated sub to do this.

 

Final option is to connect the dac directly to a sub which has a passive hi line output to my amp (not even sure if this exists)

 

Does anyone else have any experience with Crossovers / Subs?

What do you think the best option to go for is?

 

Thanks

 

post #7 of 23

Why can't you just have a 2.0 setup where you connect the K1000s and the subwoofer to the source. At this point, you could eq the K1000s so all the lower frequencies are "filtered out" and eq the subwoofer so only the lower frequencies are "filtered in." A hackish approach but simple nonetheless. Not sure how sound quality/natural sounding that would be. But, only experiments tell...

post #8 of 23

I have not done this so I don't know how well it would work with the K1000.  One option would be to look at "studio" style subs that take a line level input and output rather than the consumer style subs that tend to take a speaker level input and output.  Run the line level output from the DAC to the sub and the output from the sub to the line level input of your amp.  The sub will have an adjustable crossover and handle all of the crossover duties.  Many "studio" style subs also have a bypass switch so you can send the signal straight through without the sub doing its sub woofing if you want to listen to the K1000 normally (the crossover will be bypassed as well so the K1000 will get the full frequency signal).

 

An example of a "studio" style sub would be a M-Audio SBX10.  Just an example of what I mean by "studio" sub.  There are better subs.  You can look at the pictures and info there to see the type of connections and options a studio style sub has.  They'll typically have balanced inputs and outputs.  The balanced connections can be converted to regular unbalanced RCA connections with $5 adapters available at RadioShack (or any pro audio shop).  There's a knob on the back to adjust the crossover frequency.  There's a knob on the back to adjust the volume so you can hopefully match it properly to the K1000 so the sub won't be too loud or too soft.

 

Edit addendum: Does your Unison Unico integrated amp have a tape loop?  A proper tape loop with a set of RCA inputs and RCA outputs for a tape player/recorder.  If it does you could probably put the "studio" style sub in the tape loop which might make things more convenient and flexible for the setup.

 

Edit again:  On second thought, putting the sub in the tape loop wouldn't work right because the volume knob on the amp wouldn't have any affect on the subs volume level.  The volume level of the sub wouldn't stay in sync with the volume level changes done by the amps volume knob.  Same problem with using the setup I first mentioned running the line out from the DAC to the sub and then to the integrated amp.  The volume knob on the integrated amp wouldn't keep the volume level of the sub in sync.  So neither of those setups would work properly.  Seems the best option would be to use a sub that takes speaker level inputs and outputs (you connect the sub to the speaker terminals from the amp using speaker wire).


Edited by Ham Sandwich - 6/17/10 at 6:41pm
post #9 of 23

 

 

The easiest way to hook up a sub is with an AVR,I have actually listened to the K1000's with my main stereo on as well and it is very good but defeats the object.

 

Depending on what genre I am listening to I swap phones,for certain types of music nothing beats a good set of closed (semi closed ) cans.

 

Easy to see why the R10 is the King.

 

 

 

post #10 of 23
Thread Starter 

Just wanted to say a big thank you to everyone who has participated in this thread.

I've done some serious listening tonight and the new drivers seem to be getting better (I assume as the diaphragm loosens)

I'm 50:50 whether I'm going to bother with this sub idea now, its been a massive headache because there's next to no info about K1000s & Subs. I'm going to go into town tomorrow and pop into a hifi shop and maybe buy one on a 14day trial.

This is going to get pretty expensive after i buy a Sub and High Level Filter to stop Bass going to the Speaker Amp & K1000s. I listen to my K1000s quite loud so I'm worried the bass will be booming to match the k1000s, which will defeat having headphones in the first place.

Think il try some trial and error instead of buying the whole lot in one go.

Thanks again and il update with my findings.

 

Cheers

post #11 of 23
Thread Starter 

Hi again

 

I finally purchased a Sub and just wanted to post my impressions and experiences here for other K1000 owners.

My Music room is approx 10 x 9 so not ideal, i also have a fair bit of glass in there (Desk, Cabinet, 2 tables) another no no apparently for good Bass.

The sub i purchased was a Rel T3 (£435) i was informed Rels are know for being fast and musical Subs.

I've spent two days constantly moving the sub all around the room, tweaking the crossover and volume and have had some good results but have decided to return the sub to the dealer tomorrow.

The decision boiled down to the fact i listen to different Genres. One of my favorite bands is Dire Straits and i setup the sub for them and has some nice results. I then switch to Alicia Keys and almost had to hit the deck. This was closely followed by my girlfriend running up the stairs to tell me to knock it off.

Once id adjusted the volume and went to another song i was hit by the same problem again.

I also didn't like the fact i could feel the pulses as well. Its just a constant reminder that the sub was there and you find yourself concentrating on the deep bass notes. 

I spent some time listening to the sub without the headphones and was actually surprised by how little i was actually missing. When i turned the sub off, the very first thing i thought was "wow that piano sounds realistic" id tested that song probably 10 times while testing and didn't once think that with the sub on.

So there you go, maybe if i had a larger room or only listened to a few Genres i might have kept it but it doesn't add enough in my opinion.  

 

 

post #12 of 23

I use a first generation REL sub with my AKG K1000 in a small room. I initially had problems integrating, after advice, eventually settling on the lowest setting & not too much volume on the sub woofer. I also found it better to place the sub on a granite chopping board rather than directly sitting on the floor.

post #13 of 23


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by KnightK View Post

Why can't you just have a 2.0 setup where you connect the K1000s and the subwoofer to the source. At this point, you could eq the K1000s so all the lower frequencies are "filtered out" and eq the subwoofer so only the lower frequencies are "filtered in." A hackish approach but simple nonetheless. Not sure how sound quality/natural sounding that would be. But, only experiments tell...


I've tried something similar to this and couldn't get it to work. The sound coming from the subwoofer is delayed by a few milliseconds compared to the headphones and the result is a PITA. Totally unlistenable. 

 

If someone can figure out how to do it I am curious how it's done, as I would like to hear what a K701 would sound like properly phased with a subwoofer.

post #14 of 23
Thread Starter 

Hey guys, i've had another go at this so just thought id post my findings

 

I've been looking out for a smaller sub to try this with and i had one sat in my living room all this time, It was part of a mid range surround sound system which we don't really use anymore due to the shape of the room. I was looking through some of my Dads old hifi components last weekend and found an old equalizer. I wasn't going to put this in my main signal path but thought it might be useful to help tune a sub.

Luckily everything fitted together, i am now running an RCA out from my Unison Unico amplifier to the equalizer. That then passed the signal to my home theatre amp that powers the sub.

 

The sound is much closer to what i wanted , its not perfect but il be doing alot more tweaking with the Equalizer over the next few days. I'd almost given up on this idea but im really glad i didn't.

My K1000 drivers are brand new and are exceptionally clear and detailed but are certainly light on the bass.

 

The bass is now going really low, and its adding depth to the sound-stage, really getting the best of both worlds. As an added benefit the Sony receiver has a remote so if the bass gets too loud i can turn it down in seconds, i couldnt do this in my original attempt because it was coming straight off the speaker terminals on the Unico.

 

Here's a pic of my current setup. The first attempt was with a full size pretty expensive sub, this is so much better, worth a try if anyone with a high serial pair fancies a bit more down the bottom.

 

p1020965z.jpg

 

Top the Unison Unico Amp

Middle is Cary Xciter Dac

Bottom Technics SH-8046 Stereo Graphic Equilizer on top of Sony DAV-DZ830W HT Receiver

Behind Sony Sub Woofer

 

Pete


Edited by 03029174 - 9/16/10 at 2:38pm
post #15 of 23

You need to put the sub under your sofa : )

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