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T1 v. DT880/600, Round 1 - Page 7

post #91 of 213
Thread Starter 

Was away the last few days, helping my niece move, so I haven't had a chance to hear the T1.

 

God willing, more impressions will be forthcoming.

 

The original owner of the T1, from whom I purchased, said that there were already 75 hours on the headphones.  If this were true, then these did not lose their edge until about 140 or 150 hours.  I suspect that they actually had only 25 hours on them at time of my purchase.

 

The last time I listened to these, as I said, the T1 were beginning to sound "soft", almost like completely different headphones from what I first began to hear.  

 

Because break-in (or some cruel strain of psycho-acoustic tomfoolery) is apparently still underway, my final impressions have not yet been formed/resolved.

 

I won't be back home until tonight, so I will report more later.  I would have left the T1 plugged into the AVR-1905 over the past few days (when I was in NH), but the threat of thunder storms during my absence prevented me.  


Edited by pataburd - 6/22/10 at 11:27am
post #92 of 213
Thread Starter 


KBBI,

With my source and amps, the DT48e/200 ohm probably make more sense anyway for me.

 

The jury's still out on the T1, but regardless I would like to try the DT48 a some point along the way!

 

PAB

Quote:
Originally Posted by kool bubba ice View Post

Now your hitting my soft spot. The 501 does have more in common with the DT48 then the T1.. The T1 is more advanced, but our ears don't go by state of art..I'd be surprised if you like the DT48e better then your 501. It seems like they were made for you. God willing you will find a new model DT48e for a good price. I would recommend the new model for your taste. They sound more conventional with a bit more ample bass.. I hear the 25ohm are a bit faster & detailed then the 200 ohm.. But the 200 ohm give you a more upfront presentation. They should do fine with tubes..Erik swears by them. Either way you go, I wish you the best.
 


 
post #93 of 213


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by pataburd View Post

The last time I listened to these, as I said, the T1 were beginning to sound "soft", almost like completely different headphones from what I first began to hear.  

 

 

Mine seem to be too, Maybe I'm just getting used to the sound?  Or worse, affected by  the psycho-acoustic phenomena of expectation.

 

USG

post #94 of 213
Thread Starter 

USG,

I don't think so, because for me I have been comparing the T1 to a well broken in pair of DT880/600 all along.  Right now, the T1 sound soft and almost non-descript compared to the way they sounded before.

 

I remember with my Ultrasone Proline 750, there were large scale changes in the sound before they finally settled down; ditto for my DT880/'03; for my K501, etc. 

 

Tonight, I plan to retube with a Tung-Sol 6SN7GTB and a pair of Sylvania 6SN7GTA and listen to some known-to-be bright recordings. 
 

Let's hang in there and keep comparing notes!  : )

 

Cordially,

PAB

Quote:
Originally Posted by upstateguy View Post

Mine seem to be too, Maybe I'm just getting used to the sound?  Or worse, affected by  the psycho-acoustic phenomena of expectation.

 

USG


 

post #95 of 213


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by pataburd View Post

USG,

I don't think so, because for me I have been comparing the T1 to a well broken in pair of DT880/600 all along.  Right now, the T1 sound soft and almost non-descript compared to the way they sounded before.

 

I remember with my Ultrasone Proline 750, there were large scale changes in the sound before they finally settled down; ditto for my DT880/'03; for my K501, etc. 

 

Tonight, I plan to retube with a Tung-Sol 6SN7GTB and a pair of Sylvania 6SN7GTA and listen to some known-to-be bright recordings. 
 

Let's hang in there and keep comparing notes!  : )

 

Cordially,

PAB


 


Reposted from the "Brighter" thread:

 

pab, do me a favor and a-b them with your 880s.  See if they really became softer and bassier.

 

I tried it with mine and although when I listen to the T-1s by by themselves, they appear to have become softer and bassier, when I a-b'd them with the 880s just a while ago, I still heard the same differences and similarities I heard when I unpacked them.  I think what has changed is that I have become familiar with their sound signature rather than the headphones undergoing some kind of radical transformation from bright and edgy to smooth and bassy.

 

I believe run in does occur with transducers so I suppose it's possible that the headphones changed........  I'm loosing my perspective tonight......

 

USG

post #96 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by upstateguy View Post




You feel like coming out of hiding, filling out your profile and telling us where you're from, or is sniping from cover your thing?

 

USG


I'm very comfortable here on the grassy knoll thank you.

post #97 of 213

I'm enjoying reading your ongoing impressions pataburd. This and Bilavideo's PS1000 thread have really drawn me in, but not out of hiding. 

post #98 of 213
Thread Starter 

 

USG,

A/B-ed the two last night (w/1x RCA 6F8G and 2x Sylvania 6SN7GTA) and today (with 6F8G replaced with Tung-Sol 6SN7GTB).  These tube combinations are more neutral-sounding than the former.

 

Compared to the DT880/600, the T1 still sound brighter/edgier, I must concede.  With the last batch of tubes (1x Sylvania "Bad Boy" and 2x RCA 6SN7GT/black, staggered plates) the T1 did sound smoother, but still not as smooth as the DT880/600.  The T1 were perhaps more responsive to the tube changes.

 

Treble and bass have always sounded less extended with the T1, though, and still do.  I'll give the T1 another 100 hours or so.  If they do not definitively lose that comparative brightness with respect to the DT880, I'll probably revert to selling them after all.

 

One thing is for certain: I am not exactly "bowled over" by the T1.  That residual brightness that they still seem to manifest in the upper treble--should it not completely go away--may be the last straw for me.  Even though I sacrifice a significant amount of detail and, to a lesser extent, precision in the sound stage, nine times out of ten I have reached for the DT880/600 instead of the T1 when given the choice.. 

 

PAB


Edited by pataburd - 6/22/10 at 11:21am
post #99 of 213
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJudge View Post

I'm enjoying reading your ongoing impressions pataburd. This and Bilavideo's PS1000 thread have really drawn me in, but not out of hiding. 


Judge,

I'll be on the lookout for that puff of smoke.  : )

 

PAB

post #100 of 213

 

Originally Posted by upstateguy View Post

Mine seem to be too, Maybe I'm just getting used to the sound?  Or worse, affected by  the psycho-acoustic phenomena of expectation.

 

USG


I haven't decided whether burn-in is real or just psychological (or a combination of the two) but when I purhased a pair of T1s, I was impressed by how well they sounded unamped off my iPod but was less impressed by how they sounded off my amp.  (They didn't sound worse; they just didn't sound as good for an amped headphone as I'd have expected.)

 

I let them burn-in over several days, only checking in on them periodically so see how they were doing.  Within the last day or so, I've noticed what seem to me to be substantial improvements in the sound.  There were resolution issues with vocals that have gone away.  The presentation strikes me as smoother.  I don't know that I hear any more bass than what was there to begin with, but it seems more controlled, less like a bull in a china shop.

post #101 of 213
Thread Starter 

THREE KNOCK-DOWN RULE IN EFFECT

 

Right now I am very tired (from having gone without sleep for days), so I am a little irritable.

 

As-of my last a/b between the DT880/600 and the T1, after re-tubing the Bada, I still preferred the DT880/600 (while listening to Dire Straits' "Brothers in Arms").  Whether this equates to positing some sort of general statement about the DT880/600 being "better" than the T1 is highly subjective, however.

 

The T1 do many things better than the DT880/600, no question about it, but that little bit of edginess with the T1, to which my ears seem to be sensitive, has me preferentially reaching for the DT880/600 under most conditions.

 

Maybe with additional "break-in", a highly controversial topic (or my psycho-acoustic adaptation/habituation) the T1 may "lose" every last bit of their perceived treble edginess.

 

But I am getting impatient at this point and thinking that that may not happen after all.  When I factor in the purchase price of the T1, at this juncture and after all this aggravation and even embarrassment, I am correspondingly less enamored of them.  

 

It seems that if I am having to try this hard to like the T1, maybe they're simply not that likable for me and I need to move on.


Edited by pataburd - 6/22/10 at 11:24am
post #102 of 213

Thank you so much for the detailed recording of your journey.  It is so help in terms of providing a truthful personal experience.  And after hearing so many praises of T1, I especially appreciate your honest impression.

 

I, too, have similar experience with HE5-LE.  While many praised it so high (even some put it above T1), I just cannot approve it by comparing to my DT880/600.  The accuracy of focusing and purity of mid-high was no comparison to the cheaper DT880/600.  I was very confused by my "abnormal" impression until 6moons had similar review to my experience.  That was the time I packed the HE5-LE and felt comfortable about my personal judgment to it.  From that on, I trust more on my own ears than the posts. 

 

At final stage of owning HE5-LE, I had the same though as yours: we shouldn't need to try so so hard to "like" a new headphone.  We spend the money to enjoy the work not validate the work for the company.

 

While T1 may be a very good phone, it is also hard for me to justify the criticizing and bashing of DT880/600.  With 1/4 of T1 cost, I'll say DT880/600 is truly a performer and it is a blessing to have it at the current value.

 

Thanks again for your sharing so we can stop the upgrade bug and enjoy what we have!


Edited by dukja - 6/22/10 at 12:00pm
post #103 of 213

I've got no problems with the T1 but I applaud anybody who likes what they have well enough to stay with it.  It's all about the music.  Once you've found your bliss, there's no need to turn it in for something else.

post #104 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by pataburd View Post

THREE KNOCK-DOWN RULE IN EFFECT....................

 


On the plus side, there's no comparison with either my 650s or 880s to the window into the sound opened up by the T-1s.

 

As much as I like the sound of the '03 880s, when I put them on, the entire sound field I was listening to with the T-1s collapses into nothing more than what a regular pair of headphones sounds like.  What Beyer did with the T-1 is something special.  I'm starting to think that we are not used to hearing the amount of treble information that is necessary to open this expansive window, and when we do, in less than well mastered recordings, every high frequency cue, or flaw, is revealed and so the T-1 sounds bright or edgy.

 

Another way of saying this might be that in the instances when my 880s or 650s sound better, it is because they are acting as attenuators to errant upper register information present in the source.

 

One of the uses I have for headphones is coax out of my cable box to an M^3.   In this venue, the standard rendition of the 880 is more than enough.  Sure, the T-1s open the "sound field" dramatically, but they also let in all the hash that accompanies cable sound.  So, for cable, the 880s or 650s are better because they can't reproduce all the information that's there, and  therefore sound better because they are acting like attenuators.

 

With good recordings and good internet radio stations it is hard to beat the T-1s, and I find myself gravitating to the more 3 dimensional 'sound field' of the T-1s, rather than the relatively 2 dimensional 'sound stages' of my 880s , 650s or 701s....

 

If I was going solely for tone, I would choose my 650s, but tone is just a small part of the total experience. And 'sound field' just walks all over 'sound stage'.

 

I am definitely warming to the T-1s.  The longer I listen to them the harder it is to go back to regular headphones.

 

USG

post #105 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilavideo View Post

I've got no problems with the T1 but I applaud anybody who likes what they have well enough to stay with it.  It's all about the music.  Once you've found your bliss, there's no need to turn it in for something else.



Truer words are seldom spoken.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by upstateguy View Post



I am definitely warming to the T-1s.  The longer I listen to them the harder it is to go back to regular headphones.

 

USG


And there it where I the real proof of the pudding is.  I've said this repeatedly - the T1 are not "blow you away out of the gate" headphones - and I consider that a very serious positive.  The point is that they are very natural sounding (tonally and spatially), and that, over time, they prove to be much more musical than many/most other headphones.  But this takes time to appreciate - you don't get blown away by the boom-boom tweet-tweet - and that would just get fatiguing anyway.

 

Just my $.02.

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