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T1 v. DT880/600, Round 1 - Page 12

post #166 of 213

 

Originally Posted by pataburd View Post

Does anyone have the "microphonic" problem I described?  When I plug/unplug my T1 into the 1/4" jack, I get a sound like a mike is being disconnected while the PA amp is on, a sort of hummy/thunky/staticky sound (more evident with the Bada; less evident--but still evident--with the DV336SE).  I do not experience this phenomenon with either the DT880/600 or K501.  Both are dead quiet when plugging/unplugging.  


Possibly, this could be due to the third wire inside the T1 cable leading to each earcup. I presume that wire is there as a shield/drain of some sort, and that it's normally connected to ground. Perhaps during plug/unplug, it is momentarily acting as an antenna when it touches the L or R hot part of the jack. Whether or not such contact produces humming could be depending on the amp or ambient EMI.

 

Just speculating, of course.

post #167 of 213
Thread Starter 

Boston,

Thank you for the explanation.

PAB

post #168 of 213
Thread Starter 

Re-tubed the Bada this morning, replacing the Tung-Sol 6SN7GTB with an RCA 6F8G.  A much more refined and airy presentation from the Bada was the result.  Although for more hard-hitting genres, sometimes I think the 6F8G can be overly polite.

 

Had another nice, but brief, listen to the DT880/600.  Did not, however, unpack the T1.  Things were too harried this morning.  God willing, next week I'll enlist the T1 as my "sole" 'phones again and see if I get smitten.  : )

post #169 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bostonears View Post

Possibly, this could be due to the third wire inside the T1 cable leading to each earcup. I presume that wire is there as a shield/drain of some sort, and that it's normally connected to ground. Perhaps during plug/unplug, it is momentarily acting as an antenna when it touches the L or R hot part of the jack. Whether or not such contact produces humming could be depending on the amp or ambient EMI.

 

Just speculating, of course.


Hi Bostonears

 

It doesn't sound like RF.  When the  very tip of the male jack touches the opening of the female jack or the metal surrounding the jack hole, there is a definite electric, static like sound.  This happens with the GS-1 and Woo 3 but not the M^3.   The amps do not have to be on, or plugged in to hear the sound.  The same thing happens if I touch the the tip of the jack to metal switches or the metal screws..... while the M^3, on the other hand, is electrically dead to the T-1, no matter where you touch it.  If I had to describe the sound, I would say it sounds similar to a staticy pot sound but instead of a rush of static when you turn the pot, it's just a single discharge sound, but it will do it every time you touch the metal... it's weird.

 

USG

post #170 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by upstateguy View Post


Hi Bostonears

 

It doesn't sound like RF.  When the  very tip of the male jack touches the opening of the female jack or the metal surrounding the jack hole, there is a definite electric, static like sound.  This happens with the GS-1 and Woo 3 but not the M^3.   The amps do not have to be on, or plugged in to hear the sound.  The same thing happens if I touch the the tip of the jack to metal switches or the metal screws..... while the M^3, on the other hand, is electrically dead to the T-1, no matter where you touch it.  If I had to describe the sound, I would say it sounds similar to a staticy pot sound but instead of a rush of static when you turn the pot, it's just a single discharge sound, but it will do it every time you touch the metal... it's weird.

 

USG


I bet you wouldn't get these noises if you unplug the main power from the amps. I've had a similar experience and they turned out to be ground loops.

post #171 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shahrose View Post

I bet you wouldn't get these noises if you unplug the main power from the amps. I've had a similar experience and they turned out to be ground loops.


See above in blue. 

 

USG

post #172 of 213

It's too bad Pataburd can't get both sets of his cans to Rochester and try them on my system. I was going to try and get down to see him, but my schedule isn't working out to do that for quite some time. My system is extremely neutral and revealing, and should give a very honest perspective on his issues with the Beyers.

post #173 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by downsize View Post

It's too bad Pataburd can't get both sets of his cans to Rochester and try them on my system. I was going to try and get down to see him, but my schedule isn't working out to do that for quite some time. My system is extremely neutral and revealing, and should give a very honest perspective on his issues with the Beyers.


My system is pretty neutral too and I still hear it pretty much the way pataburd described it. 

 

It is beyond me, however,  how anyone can call these headphones warm.  The 650s are warm, the T-1s are not.

 

USG

post #174 of 213

T1 is warmish in my setup. Certainly not as warm as HD650 for sure (nor do I want that frankly) but not cold either.

post #175 of 213

I have said from the beginning, and still feel, that they are *slightly* to the warm side of neutral - very slightly.  But they are essentially neutral, IMO, and will be a reflection of the gear that they are connected to.  They indeed sound warmer via my RSA Stealth than they did via the solid-state "Blossom" amp I have been reviewing lately.

 

But anyone who considers the T1 to be "cold" must find the HD800 to be positively Arctic.

post #176 of 213

This is a very enjoyable thread, but slightly confusing. Probably due to the way everyone describes things differently. The comments about the T1s cordoning off the instruments separately, is what I consider perfect soundstaging and imaging properties. What I heard when I listened to them, was how it sounded like I would be able to magically walk into the sound field I was hearing, and walk a circle around each performer ..... This is perfection in staging and imaging in my book ; a sense of realism I haven't heard from any other cans so strongly.

       I would also agree they are slightly on the warm side of neutral. I found the bass to be tight and at the right level in the mix. I found the treble to be absolutely wonderful, with crazy amounts of detail, without ever sounding bright. It MAY could have used a light bit more treble extension.  But the midrange is where the magic happened for me. So extremely natural sounding, and just so much separation in the mix.

        So my take on the T1s is just slightly different : I feel the T1s just may have got it so "right", that what many people hear when listening to them, is not what they are used to. I wonder if many find it unsettling to have the recording laid so bare, compared to what they are used to hearing ?  Many think of music as this flat pane of sound ( wall of sound ) we listen to that moves and flows on a recording, but have we forgotten that music and recordings are not on a 2d plane, but a true 3d plane .... everything recorded in it's own space, and separated from other musicians and instruments by feet or yard of depth, width, and height ?

          I believe this is where the T1s are getting right, what all other headphones just can;t convey, and I believe it has some people shaken up, because they are just not used to it.

       My final word ?  To me the T1s are like the world's best monitoring / recording headphones .... showing EVERY detail of a recording, good and bad ... capable of being TOO truthful, but at the same time having just enough warmth and musicality to not be sterile and boring ... a can that can take you away and let you forget you are listening to music reproduction, instead of a performance.

 

Maybe they have lain bare the truth too much, and we can't handle the truth.

post #177 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylab View Post

I have said from the beginning, and still feel, that they are *slightly* to the warm side of neutral - very slightly.  But they are essentially neutral, IMO, and will be a reflection of the gear that they are connected to.  They indeed sound warmer via my RSA Stealth than they did via the solid-state "Blossom" amp I have been reviewing lately.

 

But anyone who considers the T1 to be "cold" must find the HD800 to be positively Arctic.


Agreed. I am with Skylab on this. The T1s are very slightly on the warm/lush side of neutral (I have confirmed this with many different setups and they all came back the same).

 

It could be that those who find the T1s as cold might have a different view of neutral. I do imagine that both the HD800s and K701s would be absolutely freezing just as mentioned above.

post #178 of 213
Thread Starter 

FWIW, I have heard better rendering of a 3-D sound field from "lesser" offerings--Ultrasone, for example.  The T1 do not render the front-to-back dimension (i.e. "depth") all that well, IMHO.  

 

To me it's the T1's lack of extension that makes the treble sound crowded/constrained, and to me, bright.  Their mid levels, ultimately, sound thin to me as well, tipped toward the upper midrange.  Mid bass roundedness lends to a perception of "warmth", but again, it is not a warmth that inheres to the midrange; there's no "chest" to vocals.      

 

Ultimately, though, to my ears, the T1--for all their rendering of detail upon detail--remain uninvolving.

 

I will probably listen to the T1 for another week, expanding my reserves of perseverance.  But, barring a miraculous turn around in the way they sound to me, I don't expect anything different from what the last several weeks have had to offer.


Edited by pataburd - 7/4/10 at 11:50am
post #179 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by pataburd View Post

FWIW, I have heard better rendering of a 3-D sound field from "lesser" offerings--Ultrasone, for example.  The T1 do not render the front-to-back dimension (i.e. "depth") all that well, IMHO.  To me it's their lack of extension that makes the treble sound crowded/constrained, and to me, bright.

 

Ultimately, though, to my ears, the T1--for all their rendering of detail upon detail--remain uninvolving.

 

I will probably listen to the T1 for another week, expanding my reserves of perseverance.  But, barring a miraculous turn around in the way they sound to me, I don't expect anything different from what the last several weeks have had to offer.


FWIW...I couldn't disagree with you any more! The 3-D sound staging (in terms of depth; not width) is simply the best and is much better than any Ultrasone/Denon...and even slightly bests the HD800s.

 

It really is amazing just how differently you and I perceive what we are hearing.

post #180 of 213
Thread Starter 

So be it, MH.  So be it.  

 

I will be unpacking the T1 later today and (somewhat reluctantly) listening to the Fitz-Max Bada PH-12 tubed with a Tung-Sol 6SN7GTB and two Sylvania 6SN7GTA.  Will try to stick with an all classical/period repertoire.


Edited by pataburd - 7/4/10 at 11:58am
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