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T1 v. DT880/600, Round 1 - Page 2

post #16 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by pataburd View Post


 

It all makes me want to retire to a hermitage, take a vow of silence, write poetry, and grow and pickle organic turnips.  : )

 

PAB
 

Thanks Pab...now I have to clean off my Pepsi from my laptop screen!
 

post #17 of 213

Pataburd-

Thank you for the writeup. No matter how your final thoughts and sound chain pan out, I feel good. I am working my way up through the headphone cycle and partially because of your and others' reviews, I currently have a pair of K501's and a pair of DT880-03's. I like others, sometimes wonder what I am missing and what I might buy next. I see MacedonianHero likes T1's better than HD800s at the same time Boomana doesn't like T1's, yet likes HD800s. Tastes vary, but articles like yours show me that my headphones need not be ashamed.

post #18 of 213

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by pataburd View Post

It all makes me want to retire to a hermitage, take a vow of silence, write poetry ... 


I think you are already doing the latter.

post #19 of 213

I can't fault your sincerity, your thoroughness or your honesty - though my own mileage definitely varies.  I just got my pair today, which have not burned in yet, and am running them off the M^3 with STEPs and a variable bass boost.  Despite the bass boost, which comes in handy with the HD800, I find myself dialing it down to zero with the T1.  Rather than sibilance, I'm finding mine a shade dark.  Mind you, I don't have the same basis from which to compare.  I've never tasted the beyer dynamic (pun intended) or that of the K501.  My basis of comparison consists of the PS1000 and the HD800.  My T1s seem to be punchy, colored on the dark side, with a splash of treble that gives the cymbals a crispness that's refreshing.  I've noticed, however, that the output is track specific.  For some of my music, I could use a bit more treble.  Some tracks even sound dull.  On others, like Ozzy Osbourne's Mama, I'm Coming Home - a slick, FM-friendly rocker ballad - the presentation seems to shine.  

 

As with the GS1000, where the heavy 100 Hz bass hump was matched by a spike at the other end, there may be room to complain of sibilance generated by a kind of overcompensation.  At present, that's the only way I can explain any complaint of sibilance in these cans.  I can't compare them to the rest of the beyer lineup nor am I interested in how they make out among their siblings.  I only care about how these cans sound and what I hear is fairly mellow.  They don't strike me as bright.  In fact, when I pump stuff like System of a Down and Avenged Sevenfold through them, they seem remarkably unsibilant in what should be nothing but siss-siss-siss till my ears bleed.  Given their punch, as well as their ability to handle metal with a lot of sheen, I'm less inclined to see their Achilles heel as sibilance; it's the dark hue that makes them less spectacular with tracks that are dark to dull.  Did I mention I have to dial the bass boost down to zero?

 

Of course, I'm 44 and pumping an iPod into my M^3, not a $1,500 cd player off a gold-plated DAC.  It could be I've killed enough of those little hairs in my ear canal that sibilance is wasted on me, but last night's cable movie viewing (through the HD800) suggests otherwise.  Mind you, broadcast seems to be horrendously sibilant, especially during the commercials, but the fact that I go through life grimacing as much as I do at sub-mosquito-tones-of-terror makes me think I'm still in the game, even if I have a shorter stack of chips than I did at age 14.  I haven't run direct comparisons between the T1 and the PS1000, but it definitely sounds less grandiose in soundstage, maybe not as tight and intimate as a Grado but certainly somewhere in-between the Grados and the HD800.  When I can listen to The Proclaimers singing I'm Gonna Be (500 Miles) and not notice the horrific sibilance of that track, I'm thinking maybe sibilance is not the big issue.

 

For the time being, I'm going to cling to my initial impression (which seems confirmed on track after track) that much of these cans' output is a shade dark, or at least rolled off somewhere north of the mids.  That doesn't mean that they don't also slide a peak somewhere in there to capture enough siss to give them a crispy top.  I just notice, on track after metallic track, that - if anything - they restrain the HF.  On Clash's Career Opportunities, the HF is fairly mellow.  Supernova's Harry Gato ought to kill my ears, but it doesn't.  Blink 182's The Rock Show is plenty busy, on both guitars and that tapping cymbal-work, but my ears are wearing some kind of Hazmat suit as the assault continues.  Weezer, whose wall-to-wall distortion usually leaves my ears aching a tad, is missing some venom.  Jimi Hendrix's Voodoo Child almost ought to start a fire, but on the T1, it sounds just right.  Alice in Chains' Sickman is about as playable on the T1 as on any cans I've ever had.  In the hands of the T1, the Goo Goo Dolls' Iris is pop heroin.  These are the perfect cans to open up some AC/DC whoopass with delirious frenzy.  The Fixx's back-to-basics album, 1011 Woodland, just shines on the T1.  The same goes for Tom Petty's Makin' Some Noise.  Even the Bee Gees sound great on the T1 (with punch and crunch that'll make you rediscover the evil joys of disco).  You'll want the bass boost for KC and the Sunshine Band's Get Down Tonight.  Don't even get me started with Led Zeppelin.

 

In the meantime, some tracks come off slightly dull - or maybe more.  The Soggy Bottom Boys' I Am A Man of Constant Sorry is one of those zero-bass tracks; it's pressing right on the edge between okay and dull.  Lou Gramm's plasticky radio hit, Midnight Blue, comes off unusually restrained.  The same goes for Supertramp's The Logical Song while Linda Ronstadt's You're No Good actually sounds a little dull.  But that may be track specific since Elton John's Daniel sounds more open (though it also reminds me of how much further this pair of cans needs to burn in before that graininess smooths out).  Wings' With a Little Luck sounded a little dark till I dialed the bass boost back to zero, which is where Fleetwood Mac's Rhiannon sounded perfect.  Ditto for The Rolling Stones' You Can't Always Get What You Want.  Suzanne Vega's Caramel occupies a tonal spot so close to dull I can't imagine going any darker without ruining the track.  John Lennon's Whatever Gets You Through the Night is another in little need of a bass boost.  Even with the bass boost at zero, Alicia Keys' You Don't Know My Name sounded slightly muted.

 

Are there exceptions?  Of course.  Pat Benatar's Invincible is sibilant.  I have to dial up the bass (one of the few times) to fill out the sound and pull back the volume to edge off the HF.   Then again, it's an 80s FM-ready synthesizer-heavy pop-rocker.  David Bowie & Queen's Under Pressure has these moments of sibilant crunch, at least with the bass dialed to zip.  American Hi-Fi's Highs and Lows sounds the best I've heard it, pressing right up to the edge between high presence and fingernails on the chalkboard.  I think that's on purpose.  Matchbox Twenty's 3AM asks for some extra bass, but one-third power is more than enough.  U2's Miracle Drug needs a little more than that.  Surprisingly, The Beatles' cover of Roll Over Beethoven was one of the few tracks that seemed to slap me with treble spikes.  I can't say the same for Rose Royce's theme from Car Wash, but that may be a judgment call.  Kiss's Spit was sibilant till I turne up the bass.

 

There were few tracks that didn't sound best with the bass boost turned to zero, and fewer still where sibilance remained no matter what I did.  If that was the case with pop, rock and punk, it was equally true of country.  The Charlie Daniels Band never sounded better.  Same for Hank Williams - Sr. and Jr.  Johnny Cash's One Piece at a Time was infectious.  I had to use the bass boost to reign in Peter Gabriel's In Your Eyes, another eighties plastica.  

 

A few tracks surprised me by how good they were on the T1: Elvis's Suspicious Minds (attack), Billy Joel's James (transparency),  Alanis Morisette's Not the Doctor (clarity), Sum 41's In Too Deep (excitement without frying my ears), Stone Temple Pilots' Trippin' On a Hole in a Paper Heart (all that siss without overkill), U2's One Tree Hill (spectacular dyamics), Danity Kane's Damaged, Van Halen's Right Now, V.I.C.'s Get Silly (with the bass boost at half-power), Heart's Even It Up, The Clash's Inoculated City, The Who's Pinball Wizard, Linda Ronstadt's It So Easy, Alice In Chain's God Smack, even Lady GaGa's LoveGame.  Early Pat Benatar stings, as it should.  The Romantics' annoying Talking In Your Sleep actually sounds decent.  The Rolling Stones' Brown Sugar came back to life.  Nirvana's All Apologies rocked.  To quote the kid from Almost Famous, ELO's Ma-Ma-Ma Belle was "incendiary."  Even the Offspring sounds snappy without killing the listener.

 

Steely Dan's Do It Again plays again.  Michael Jackson's Scream breaks more than glass.  Norah Jones' Don't Know Why will make you fall in love.  Green Day's Basket Case just slays, though it could have been a cleaner track.  Fleetwood Mac's Gold Dust Woman reminds me of why I spend so much money on this "hobby."  You can hear the echo of the solilquy on Meat Loaf's You Took the Words Right Out of My Mouth better with amazing clarity.  The drum solo on My Chemical Romance's Cemetery Drive thumps like the cops with a no-knock warrant.  Even the Mormon Tabernacle Choir singing Come, Follow Me is lush (though pre-burn-in, it's still a little grainy).  Flight of the Conchords singing Au Revoir sounds like they're right in the room.

 

Of all the genres I ran through the T1, the one that surprised me the most was jazz.  Thelonious Monk's sometimes jackhammer key-pounding (e.g. Body and Soul - Remake Take 3) was easier to sit through on the T1 than on other cans.  His Off Minor (Take 5) - with full woodwind and rhthm-section accompaniment just swept me away.  I suppose one could take some of those brassy squeals as "strident," but to me, they were provocative.  Dizzy Gillespie's Jungla is just scrumptious.  You can really hear the scrunchy timbre of those horns.  It practically indicts everything on the charts today.  Gillespie's Groovin' High will make a jazz lover out of any kid who hears it on the T1.  If it doesn't, Bang! Bang! will.  Art Pepper's Straight Life just pops.  It could have been a little clearer, but I think that's the track.

 

Classical and Broadway tunes generally go down well on the T1, better than on the PS1000, though success against HD800 is mixed.  Of course, nobody ever accused Phantom of the Opera of being sibilant.  While the T1 doesn't have as large a soundstage as the HD800, it has more of it than the PS1000 and its dynamics are nothing if not fun.  The Nuremberg Symphony Orchestra's rendition of Suite from Sylvia: Pizzicato sounded balanced and airy.  The New Zealand Symphony's Adagio for Strings could have used a little more treble, but perhaps that's the track.  I'd say the same of the London Philharmonic Orchestra's Le Nozze Di Figaro, which sounded a little warm.  Its rendition of The Sorcerer's Apprentice had the same tonality, though the attack was engaging.  Puccini's Madama Butterfly (as conducted by Herbert von Karajan) has a similar tonality that begs for a little more HF.  Strangely enough, movie tunes, like Ennio Morricone's scores on For a Few Dollars More, For a Fistful of Dollars, The Good, the Bad and the Ugly - or John Williams' scores like The Main Theme from Star Wars and The Imperial March (from The Empire Strikes Back) sound great.  The theme from Raiders of the Lost Ark seems right on the edge between neutral and dull.  Summon the Heroes seems no worse for the wear.  Neither does the theme from Jaws.  But the theme from Jurassic Park could have been brighter.  The theme from Schindler's List is perfectly rendered, not just in tone but in the timbre of the instruments.  Those violins just sing on the T1.

 

Well, I've written a book.  Sorry about that.  Old habits.  I meant to simply reply.  Whatever happened after that must simply be the booze talking.  What month is this?


Edited by Bilavideo - 6/19/10 at 7:05pm
post #20 of 213
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin Uthadude View Post

Pataburd-

Thank you for the writeup. No matter how your final thoughts and sound chain pan out, I feel good. I am working my way up through the headphone cycle and partially because of your and others' reviews, I currently have a pair of K501's and a pair of DT880-03's. I like others, sometimes wonder what I am missing and what I might buy next. I see MacedonianHero likes T1's better than HD800s at the same time Boomana doesn't like T1's, yet likes HD800s. Tastes vary, but articles like yours show me that my headphones need not be ashamed.


JU,

This was my first, and may perhaps be my last, foray into the flagship nether regions.  As I have mused before: the K501, DT880/'03 or 600 ohm--TBD, and the AH-D5000 would keep me content for a good, long while.  And for the price of a single pair of the T1, I could afford all three/four pair of the aforementioned.

 

Justifiably, my expectations were/are high, given the price of entry.  If these T1 turn out not to be a defective set, I will sell/trade them, then gleefully ride off into Head-Fi oblivion whistling along to the tune--and to the affordable cost--of the K501 and/or the DT880/'03 or 600 ohm and/or the AH-D5000.

 

Sporting such cans as the K501 or the DT880/'03, one can hold his head high, even in the exalted company of the T1, IMHO.  : ) 

PAB


Edited by pataburd - 6/17/10 at 4:59am
post #21 of 213

Pataburd;

 

While I got a different reading from the T1s I just bought, I salute you for two reasons: First, you remain true to what you hear, regardless of what anybody else says.  That is the mark of true audio integrity.  Second, you aren't afraid to enjoy the old models.  Having never heard these cans you prefer, I can't help but wonder if you aren't right, in the end, and all these "upgrades" are simply product modifications in response to a fickle marketplace.  You may just bury us all.

post #22 of 213

Very interesting impressions so far.  Must admit it's refreshing to see honesty like this instead of the usual hype.

post #23 of 213

It is one view based on his setup, it doesn't mean all others are dishonest, less sincere or hype.

post #24 of 213


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by pataburd View Post

Your responses are well taken.  Thank you.

 

It may very well be an amping issue.  I do plan to try the T1 with the Bada later tonight.  It's odd that my DT880/600 sound smooth in the treble while my T1 do not, though.  And remember: I can tolerate, and even prefer, a treble response that is already too bright for many on these threads.

 

For whatever reason, my findings are inconsistent with every other T1 user who has reported in so far, and theoretically inconsistent with what I would have expected.

 

Does anyone have the "microphonic" problem I described?  When I plug/unplug my T1 into the 1/4" jack, I get a sound like a mike is being disconnected while the PA amp is on, a sort of hummy/thunky/staticky sound (more evident with the Bada; less evident--but still evident--with the DV336SE).  I do not experience this phenomenon with either the DT880/600 or K501.  Both are dead quiet when plugging/unplugging.  

Quote:
Originally Posted by pataburd View Post

I'm beginning to think that my pair might be defective. 



That was a very good review Pat.      As I read it, all I could do was nod my head in agreement.

 

To take some of your concerns one at a time.....

 

I have tried the T-1 with a GS-1 (a transistor amp), a Woo 3 ( a tube amp) and an M^3 (an opamp amp) and each time my findings parallel yours to a greater or lesser extent.  So, no it's not an amping issue.

 

Your findings are not inconsistent with every T-1 user.  I am squarely in your corner and I believe Asr was as well.

 

I hear the same staticky sound whenever I plug the T-1 in to any of the 3 amps I have tried it with, and I hear it regardless of whether the amps are on or off.

 

I doubt we have defective T-1s..... we're hearing the same things almost the same way.

 

What I can add is this.  Like the 701s, the higher the quality of the recording you use, the better the T-1 sounds.  If you only stick to the best of the best, the T-1 can do quite a credible 3 dimensional job, but when you stray to internet radio, cable TV, older or lesser quality recordings, the T-1 reveals flaws like all get out, which sound as you described. 

 

So for  general use, the T-1 is not more enjoyable or comfortable, than my '03 880s or my "relaxed" 650s (which I really like too).  But there are two notable areas where the T-1 excels with the right material:  the T-1 has a vast 3 dimensional sound stage and a presence and clarity of details that none of my other headphones come close to.

 

As far as sound signature goes, the T-1 are the '03 880s so anyone who knows 880s will recognize the T-1s as a higher resolution family member.

 

I was going to say that I've been listening to three sound tracks today,  KT Tunstall's "Drastic Fantastic" (amazon's 256), Nora Jones' "Not too Late" (amazon's 256) and Francoise Hardys' "La Pluie Sans Parapluie" ( flac)  and resolution aside, my favorite headphone for the accurate representation of vocals and instruments are the 650s, but when switching from the T-1s back to the 650s, I realize how much of that big window the T-1 opened, is gone.  Curiously, it is not so obvious when going the other way. Going from the 650s to the T-1s, feels like a high frequency rush, a loss of bass and pretty much what Pat described and it's only after a long few minutes that I can adjust back to the T-1 sound and appreciate the increased resolution.  If I had a wish list, it would be that the T-1s had a substantial bass like the 650s and that they were lighter and more comfortable. 

 

Just a few comments on the albums listened to with the T-1s.  Of three, Nora's is the best engineered as far as dynamics,and sibilance and seems to be recorded at a sensible level.   Francoise's is a good click or two louder, is close miked, but still not sibilant and while KT's, was recorded at a level only slightly greater than Nora's, it contains a significant amount of sibilance.

 

USG


Edited by upstateguy - 6/17/10 at 12:50pm
post #25 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacedonianHero View Post

Confusing isn't it? I know we all hear differently, but this gap is too much. Do have access to a second T1 to try?


He really doesn't need a second pair.  I hear things pretty much as he does.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bilavideo View Post

 

Of course, I'm 44 and pumping an iPod into my M^3,

 

Mind you, broadcast seems to be horrendously sibilant,

 

these cans' output is a shade dark, or at least rolled off somewhere north of the mids.

 

 

 


I have an M^3 like yours and those cans sound bright like your broadcasts are, not dark in any way.

 

How are you getting the sound from the ipod into the M^3?

 

USG

post #26 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by upstateguy View Post


 


 

What I can add is this.  Like the 701s, the higher the quality of the recording you use, the better the T-1 sounds.  If you only stick to the best of the best, the T-1 can do quite a credible 3 dimensional job, but when you stray to internet radio, cable TV, older or lesser quality recordings, the T-1 reveals flaws like all get out, which sound as you described. 


Then I would stay far, far away from the HD800s!

post #27 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacedonianHero View Post




Then I would stay far, far away from the HD800s!


I have no interest in internet radio. I enjoy high quality recordings and most of my CD/SACD are of high quality recordings. There is no sibilance issue I have heard on any recording today and I have been listening for 6 hrs, I am impressed thus far with the speed,detail and transparency. Very good phones for my musical taste. If I were listening to internet radio I use my 59.00 JVC RX900. If I want a reference system this headphone sits well in my system. When I listen to my Ipod touch I use my Denon 1001. The T1 highs are very nice and bass is very tight and deep and controlled. Very balanced and neutral headphones.

post #28 of 213

Pataburd sorry for the OT but how is the WeeeeeSquirrel(did I get enough e´s?) 336SE with the K501?


Edited by burgunder - 6/17/10 at 11:54pm
post #29 of 213


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank I View Post

I have no interest in internet radio. I enjoy high quality recordings and most of my CD/SACD are of high quality recordings. There is no sibilance issue I have heard on any recording today and I have been listening for 6 hrs, I am impressed thus far with the speed,detail and transparency. Very good phones for my musical taste. If I were listening to internet radio I use my 59.00 JVC RX900. If I want a reference system this headphone sits well in my system. When I listen to my Ipod touch I use my Denon 1001. The T1 highs are very nice and bass is very tight and deep and controlled. Very balanced and neutral headphones


Too bad Frankie...... 

 

I fired up the Woo and ended up spending the afternoon listening to oldies here-----> http://209.9.238.4:8656/

 

it's only 128, but the sound processing and CD sources are crystal clear.  Some of the best listening with the T-1s so far.  Listening to Capris "There's A Moon Out Tonight" from 1961.  It might be a little too far back in time for some of you but the sound quality is exceptional.  What a panic.  You heard Ringo sing "Honey Don't", now I'm listening to Carl Perkins do it.....LOL

 

USG

post #30 of 213
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by burgunder View Post

Pataburd sorry for the OT but how is the WeeeeeSquirrel(did I get enough esses?) 336SE with the K501?

It's 6x e.  : )


The WeeeeeeSquirrel 336SE does a nice job with the K501.  The Mullard 6080/Mullard ECC33 combination was probably the best with the AKGs. 

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