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T1 v. DT880/600, Round 1 - Page 9

post #121 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by pataburd View Post

Listened to the Columbia Legacy re-master of the first Santana album/disc.  WeeeeeeSquirrel Darkvoice 336SE w/Svetlana 6H13C and RCA 6SN7GTB.

 

A pleasant surprise.  Zero grain in the vocals, very driving articulate bass and a veritable "raging conduit" of '70s Rock-n-Roll detail.  The lead guitar had bright moments, but that's the way Carlos had it tuned/amped.

 

+1 for the T1.  : )


Glad you found a recording you like the T1! Let us know as your attitude towards them evolves (or doesn't).

post #122 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by pataburd View Post



If I were to get a pair of DT880 having '03 housings fitted with 600 ohm drivers, I think I could live happily without the T1 at this point.  : )



NoXter has built himself such a construct, the 2003 housings with the 600 ohm systems sound very nice, warm and coherent, most important is that they provide more bass. Downside is that the high PRaT factor of the systems isn't supported very much, as everything is tuned away from the snappy kickbass in favour of the deep bass.

post #123 of 213
Thread Starter 

Just got back from an interview trip in Newport News, VA, so I have not listened to the T1 in several days.  As we speak, the gear is warming up for a possible evening audition.  Am keeping the same tubes in the WS-336SE.  

post #124 of 213
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickchen View Post

NoXter has built himself such a construct, the 2003 housings with the 600 ohm systems sound very nice, warm and coherent, most important is that they provide more bass. Downside is that the high PRaT factor of the systems isn't supported very much, as everything is tuned away from the snappy kickbass in favour of the deep bass.


Boy, would I like to hear these! 

I still think I'm most loyal to the DT880/2003 sound.  It was their ability to go both higher than high and deeper than deep that gave them that seemingly endless reserve of airiness and expansiveness.

post #125 of 213
Thread Starter 

The T1 are doing fine with Hiroshima's "Go", Loggins and Messina's "Best of Friends", Niel Diamond's "Heartlight" and now--for the nth go-around--"Digital Duke".  They seem to respond well at higher volume, and without strain.

 

The final verdict is still not in for these headphones, but the thought struck me that last week I seemed to be trying hard to like the T1, whereas this week I seem to be trying equally hard not to like them.  : )

 

That said, I have not put on the DT880/600 or the K501 lately, either.

post #126 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by pataburd View Post

The T1 are doing fine...The final verdict is still not in for these headphones, but...I seem to be trying equally hard not to like them.  : )



I don't want them (neither the HD800), altough I principally have the funds. Unsufficient musicality.

post #127 of 213
Thread Starter 

UNANIMOUS DECISION  
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nickchen View Post

I don't want them (neither the HD800), altough I principally have the funds. Unsufficient musicality.


NickChen,

I must agree with you.  Last night, after listening to the T1 for awhile, I tried the DT880/600 again after a week long hiatus.  Needless to say, after I immediately relaxed and settled into the music, the DT880/600 stayed on my head for the remainder of the evening.

 

Yes, the T1 can truly amaze with their level of resolution and detail, with their sense of cleanliness and crispness, with their pinpoint placement of musicians and instruments within the sound field.  But I will reiterate my previous observations: the DT880/600--IMHO--deliver superior tonality, instrument-to-instrument synergy and, ultimately, more musicality, while the T1 strike me as predominantly analytical in their delivery of the goods.  

 

They may not have the mid bass definition/smack and rounded articulation of the T1, either, but to my ears the DT880/600 go both lower and higher than the T1, and those apparent reserves at the frequency extremes give the DT880/600 a sense of ease that the T1 (again, to my ears) seem to lack.  On my scorecard, tonality and ease of presentation outweigh the many (lesser) superlatives that the T1 admittedly do extremely well, and make the DT880/600 winners.

 

I plan to reinsert the Fitz-Max Bada PH-12 later tonight, and give the T1 another shot.  But its been long enough that I sort of know where this is going already.  : )

 

Factoring in the MSRP, I have even less reason to prefer the T1, if I might have had reason to prefer them to begin with.  Time to bump the FS thread and look forward to having the DT880/600 re-cabled with UP-OCC copper.  Then, perhaps the D7000 and possibly the DT48--with a dollar or two left over!

 

The DT880/600 stay.  The T1--barring a cataclysmic change in the way they perform on the Bada this evening--go.

 

PAB 


Edited by pataburd - 6/29/10 at 10:07am
post #128 of 213

The T1 is much more musical than a HD800 or a SR404 though. I'm a bit unsure what musicality is, I only feel severely unpleased if it is unsufficient or totally absent (for what reason ever). It's a bit like the girls, you happen to love that spirited small redhead with the big nose, while the totally perfect blonde everyone craves for leaves you totally cold....

post #129 of 213
Thread Starter 

That hits the nail on the head for my experience with the T1, nickchen.  The T1 do a host of things exceptionally well, but just don't seem to deliver the unum necessarium for me.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by nickchen View Post

. . . I'm a bit unsure what musicality is, I only feel severely [dis]pleased if it is [in]sufficient or totally absent (for what[ever] reason).

post #130 of 213

I turned down my HiFace from 32 bits (the factory recommendation) to 16 bits and it seemed to help with the brightness but there also seems to be a loss of high frequency detail, (and/or a decrease in volume level) that accompanies it.)

 

I also keep the buffer at 50ms and live with the pauses when I change selections or minimize foobar, because increasing the buffer seems to cause a decrease in resolution.

 

I have none of these difficulties with the "Thingee"  but somehow I always end up back with the HiFace and the T-1s (over the 880s or my 650s - apparently I'm a sucker for the sound stage trick [atm anyway] and the 880/650s are just a regular headphones in that respect)

 

USG

post #131 of 213


MODERATOR EDITS HAVE TAKEN PLACE IN THIS THREAD.  THIS IS A FAMILY ORIENTED COMMUNITY, OVERLY SEXIST AND OTHER DEROGATORY COMMENTS HAVE BEEN REMOVED.  IF THIS CONTINUES, THREAD DELETION OR EVEN BANS COULD RESULT.

kwkarth

post #132 of 213

Hey, the HD555 is a great can for the money if you know what you're dealing with. 

But I agree that labeling products but the most expensive (and hyped) ones as "mid-fi" is pretty stupid. Or saying that technically perfectly fine cans "aren't exactly high-end" or similar rubbish.


Edited by xnor - 6/30/10 at 11:16am
post #133 of 213

...again in your opinion.

 

In mine...they are great bang for your buck cans for sure, but still mid-fi.

 

They haven't been updated in 5 years. To my ears (Skylab, Bilavideo, Immitbiker, and many more), there is a big improvement in the T1s over the DT880/600s and that is hi-fi...constantly going for better sound.

 

And one more thing: "technically perfect" headphones DON'T EXIST.

 

No one is saying that the DT880/600s are poor headphones (or even mid grade), they are truly great headphones and offer a much better bang for the buck over the T1s (or HD800s), that's not what I am saying, so please don't take it that way.

 

My DAC (PS Audio DLIII) is a great mid-fi dac. I am fine with it for now and might one day move up to the Perfect Wave, but I don't take offense to calling my gear mid-fi.


Edited by MacedonianHero - 6/30/10 at 11:28am
post #134 of 213

I'd say, a HD555 may be called midfi, a DT880'600 hifi, and a T1 high end. And I agree, high end is an improvement over hifi in many respects, but high end also has acoustical and musical drawbacks of its own.

 

Each to his own what he regards as most important spec. If you are after an acoustical scalpel and want details, details, resolution, there is no way staying happy with a product that is "only" hifi. But if you are after sheer musical joy, a T1 or HD800 is as displaced as Merryl Streep on the Top Gear test track.


Edited by nickchen - 6/30/10 at 11:40am
post #135 of 213
Thread Starter 

I do not disagree with your observation that the T1 logs "big improvements" compared to the DT880/600.  My contention is that the T1 do not preserve the tonal expression and synergy of the DT880/600--IMHO a critical omission.  

 

One would think, and one should reasonably expect, that the T1 would convey everything admirable from the DT880/600 as a basis of improvement, but--again, IMHO--the T1 fall flat, tonally, and lapse into a technically proficient yet predominantly analytical (and expensive) piece of gear.  

 

God willing, I will compile a scorecard, listing the T1's perceived strengths and weaknesses alongside the DT880/600's.  Item for item, the T1 will undoubtedly win with more pluses than the DT880/600; but--IMHE--the WEIGHTED average of the hierarchically ordered contributing factors (i.e. tonality, ease, musicality/musical involvement) will tip the scales in favor of the lesser Beyers.  : ) 
 

I re-tubed the Darkvoice with an RCA 6F8G and a Mullard 6080 to give the T1 every tonal advantage from this amp.  Yes, the T1 sounded incredibly refined, impeccably detailed and intricately dynamic, but--sorry--they just don't make that "soulful" connection with me.  There's something just a bit too "buttoned down" about the way these cans affect me.  I think it has to do with their lack of "inter-tonality" or tonal "reach" that translates into their inability to reach me musically, reducing their presentation to something more stark in their efficiency than generous in their musicality.  

 

I think I've given them a fair shot, too.  But when I have to repeatedly "talk myself into" listening to a pair of headphones, it's time for those headphones to go.  These will go; and I anticipate no regrets.

 

Call me "mid-fi": I'll wear the label proudly--even disdainfully!  : ) --and continue to revel in the "mid-fi" wonder of such products as the K501, the DT880/2003 and the DT880/600, products which, to my ears, leave the likes of the T1 sounding less-than-hi-fi.  : ) 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacedonianHero View Post

They haven't been updated in 5 years. To my ears (Skylab, Bilavideo, Immitbiker, and many more), there is a big improvement in the T1s over the DT880/600s and that is hi-fi...constantly going for better sound.


Edited by pataburd - 6/30/10 at 11:56am
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