REVIEW: HiFiMAN RE-ZERO. Top of the IEM Food Chain? Let's Find Out! - Page 4

Cool..gotta look out for these

I'm scratching my head at that one too... but they perked my curiosity so much I got them anyway...

Quote:

Originally Posted by chengbin 

I'm just gonna add some heat to the flame. 

 

Why on earth would they add a balanced jack on a $99 earphone? Almost nothing works with that jack without an adapter. Only the most expensive headphone amps have a balanced jack. You can probably count the total number of devices that can take a TRRS jack with your hands. Who on earth will use such a high end amp for a relatively cheap pair of earphones? Maybe 0.1% of the buyers will take advantage of what balanced input jacks has to offer.

 

I have no idea what they're thinking when they decided "hey, let's piss off 99.9% of our customers by adding a TRRS connector to please the 0.1% of our customers that'll take advantage of that". I don't get that. Not only that, they introduce unnecessary cost (not just to make, but to design as well) to their product. Those are 2 of the biggest mistakes you can do in a business, purposely introduce unnecessary cost and pissing off 99.9% of your customers at the same time.

 

If you put balanced jacks on the HE-6, OK, we can understand, because it is a high end feature for a ultra high end pair of headphones. For the $99, absolutely not, no matter how great the improvements. I highly doubt you can hear a noticeable improvement from a balanced jack anyways, certainly not on a pair of $99 earphones.

Well, price doesn't mean anything.  When the RE-0 first came out I think they were $200USD, then slowly dropped down until $79.  Does it mean the RE-0 now being $79 can't compete with $200 IEMs?  If you think it can't then you're highly mistaken.  So, the whole $99 is an understatement.  Another thing, it is a limited edition, so they added something special.  Not everyone has to go out a buy the RE-ZERO, you can still buy the RE-0.  It doesn't matter if people can't benefit from the balanced jack and have to use an adapter because it sounds great already.  But, when in time if buyers do get a balanced amp they have the option of using their RE-ZERO.  So I don't understand where this whole "pissing off 99.9% of your customers at the same time" thought process.  They do offer several adapters, so if you don't want to use an adapter, that sounds like a personal problem.

Let's put it this way, Head-Direct can do whatever they want on their product, think of the balanced jack as a small freebie for a pair of IEMs that only cost $99 but well push beyond it's tier level. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by mythless 

Well, price doesn't mean anything.  When the RE-0 first came out I think they were $200USD, then slowly dropped down until $79.  Does it mean the RE-0 now being $79 can't compete with $200 IEMs?  If you think it can't then you're highly mistaken.  So, the whole $99 is an understatement.  Another thing, it is a limited edition, so they added something special.  Not everyone has to go out a buy the RE-ZERO, you can still buy the RE-0.  It doesn't matter if people can't benefit from the balanced jack and have to use an adapter because it sounds great already.  But, when in time if buyers do get a balanced amp they have the option of using their RE-ZERO.  So I don't understand where this whole "pissing off 99.9% of your customers at the same time" thought process.  They do offer several adapters, so if you don't want to use an adapter, that sounds like a personal problem.

 

Let's put it this way, Head-Direct can do whatever they want on their product, think of the balanced jack as a small freebie for a pair of IEMs that only cost $99 but well push beyond it's tier level. 

I agree that the RE0 is far beyond its $79/$99 suggests. But from a business standpoint, a price of $99 is geared toward the mass. The mass cannot take advantage of what the TRRS connector brings. Not only the mass can't take advantage of it, they can't use it at all without an adapter. It is inconvenient to carry around another cable. What if you lose the adapter? Forget to bring it? Then you can't use it at all. Only the few hard core audiophiles can take advantage of it. What are the percentages of hard core audiophiles buying the RE-ZERO? Very little, probably less than 1%. Therefore it is inappropriate, again, in a business perspective, to bother the mass with an adapter so you can please the VERY small niche with the benefits of a balanced jack. 

I had the HE-6 example in my previous post for the same reason. The HE-6, at well over $1000, is geared towards hard core audiophiles. If they put a balanced jack on the HE-6, chances are that they'll be pleasing a lot more people than bothering. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by justinxbailey 

I'm not quite sure yet as my burn in on them isn't complete but initially the bass seemed very similar... so if you get them, you may wanna keep that FiiO E5 handy.

Cool thanks...I'll skip the RE ZERO then and just hold on to my RE0.

I don't have my RE0 anymore but from memory it seems as if the Zero just presents it a bit differently.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rawrster 

I don't have my RE0 anymore but from memory it seems as if the Zero just presents it a bit differently.

I was looking for more umph to the bass. Just a tad too light IMO without a bass boost.

Why not just leave the adapter on all the time? lol

I'm loving RE-ZERO's low-end fortitude.  A nice step up from RE0 in that regard, it is more like 252.  I like the soundstage much better as well.

I'm not liking the discontinuity between the upper mids and lower treble, response-wise (or it is a bit higher, not completely sure).  They're more flush together in the RE0, perhaps it will improve with further burn-in.

Sounds that land right in between upper mids and lower treble sound slightly retarded, where the mids end the treble starts afterward a bit lower, no smooth transition.

I just have a 20-20k, 30-second sine sweep file I do tests with on rare occasion.  The sweep is too quick and not too useful, I rely more on music instead.

I do have a sine wave generator application, but it sucks hard, needs WASAPI or ASIO at least.  It's useless. I'm too lazy to find something better anyway, LOL, music is good enough for me, it has more than enough variance in sound to bring out the aspects of a headphone's/speaker's response.

No, the retardation is not within the range of my middle-ear resonances.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chengbin 

I agree that the RE0 is far beyond its $79/$99 suggests. But from a business standpoint, a price of $99 is geared toward the mass. The mass cannot take advantage of what the TRRS connector brings. Not only the mass can't take advantage of it, they can't use it at all without an adapter. It is inconvenient to carry around another cable. What if you lose the adapter? Forget to bring it? Then you can't use it at all. Only the few hard core audiophiles can take advantage of it. What are the percentages of hard core audiophiles buying the RE-ZERO? Very little, probably less than 1%. Therefore it is inappropriate, again, in a business perspective, to bother the mass with an adapter so you can please the VERY small niche with the benefits of a balanced jack. 

 

I had the HE-6 example in my previous post for the same reason. The HE-6, at well over $1000, is geared towards hard core audiophiles. If they put a balanced jack on the HE-6, chances are that they'll be pleasing a lot more people than bothering. 

Masses?  Well, first of all I haven't heard a lot of people of these "masses" and complain about the adapter.  Second, a person of the mass can probably read and decide whether or not to get the RE-Zero since they're not an upgrade over the RE-0 and deal with the adapter, and I doubt Head-Direct will care either way. 

The RE-Zero are a limited edition, meaning it's not necessarily meant for the "masses."  I, personally and many others, probably don't see an issue with the adapter.  Too me, it's no different of an "inconvenience" than people wearing huge Headphones, IMHO.  Just like it's no different than people carry amps, or other items people carry these days.  I think Fang wrote somewhere in the Head-Direct subforums that the RE-Zero was meant as a bridge to accommodate both the new people and the veterans, lowering the impedance and giving it more bass, but provide veterans as well new people a chance to get a balanced RE-0.  To me, it's a win-win situation.  It's like the whole issue of Manual Transmission vs Automatic Transmission in cars, to a degree, it depends who you talk too.
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by chengbin 

I agree that the RE0 is far beyond its $79/$99 suggests. But from a business standpoint, a price of $99 is geared toward the mass. The mass cannot take advantage of what the TRRS connector brings. Not only the mass can't take advantage of it, they can't use it at all without an adapter. It is inconvenient to carry around another cable. What if you lose the adapter? Forget to bring it? Then you can't use it at all. Only the few hard core audiophiles can take advantage of it. What are the percentages of hard core audiophiles buying the RE-ZERO? Very little, probably less than 1%. Therefore it is inappropriate, again, in a business perspective, to bother the mass with an adapter so you can please the VERY small niche with the benefits of a balanced jack. 

 

I had the HE-6 example in my previous post for the same reason. The HE-6, at well over $1000, is geared towards hard core audiophiles. If they put a balanced jack on the HE-6, chances are that they'll be pleasing a lot more people than bothering. 

take a chill out drink, it is too hot out there already!   there is no need to be upset for other people's purchasing decision~ before transaction complete or making that "click" money is still in your pocket.

it is limited edition and not aim for the mass , it is been documented and picture provided that it is a balance earphone and comes with adaptor!

like any purchase decision in life, if one does not do their research before buying some thing then tough life.

why getting on a company because you disagree with what they do~ or because you think you could do better ?

it is like you buying Xbox360 limited edtion that comes with extra freebie and you are shouting why this and that ? why the color, the painting , the free toy dolls etc ?

oh why iphone design unique plug connector instead of using my old nokia one? or mobile phones dont have all the functions you want in one piece ?

funny enough that i seen people break thumb drive in pieces because they design in a way that just annoys him and make him hard to plug it into their laptop or PC ?? i wonder if it is actually the PC or laptop's designer fault or just having midlife crisis ??

just because you didnt need it or want it doesnt mean others have same strong feeling like you.

RE0 is there, i would rather not have a limited edtiion just improved on the surface painting and nothing else is improving ~~ than one really makes difference. not some trick to make more money out of loyal customer right :)

the whole product range is near complete just waiting to see if Head-direct indeed going to introduce the custom IEM

you  have choices of RE1,RE2,RE0,RE252,RE262 and ok1, pk1 etc but you just happen to be annoy by one particular phone ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by rawrster 

I don't have my RE0 anymore but from memory it seems as if the Zero just presents it a bit differently.

I prefer the mids on the RE-ZERO. They are more forward and have more detail to my ears.

I feel at this stage the bass is similar and although i still think my well used RE0 has a little more quantity i feel the RE-ZERO has a bit more detail in the upper bass and the RE0 has a a little more quantity down low.

Ive still got some more burn in time to do on my ZEROs to bring them to 100 hrs so things may change.

Simply put i think the RE0s are a little more silky through the mids and highs hence a little warmer.

The ZEROs having more forward mids and brings more detail to the vocals which i really like.

When i'm at home i listen to the ZEROs, because of the amazing detail and i feel slightly better soundstage.

When i'm out driving or walking around i listen to the RE0s because of warmer feel and tad more bass quantity.

Give me another 50 hrs burnin and i may see it differently.

PS: i dont mind the adapter as its quite small and i like the idea of having a balanced cable if i need it in the future.