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Beta 22 differences .... What gives ?

post #1 of 31
Thread Starter 

From everything I have read on the forums, most everyone considers the B22 to be the ultimate solid state amplifier. I heard one at a meet once, and was very, very unimpressed. But other members who were there, assured me it was a poor example of a Beta 22.

 

By question is, if a person decides to build a 3 board, active ground B22, and uses good wire, and chassis connectors, what else would the builder need to consider to make sure he gets the sound everyone ultimately praises as the best ?

post #2 of 31

wiring wiring wiring

 

the b22 picks up noise like none other

post #3 of 31
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Doug View Post

wiring wiring wiring

 

the b22 picks up noise like none other


So now ... Are you talking about the quality of the wiring ... the routing of the wiring ... the twisting of the wiring ... etc ?

 

I plan on using Mundorf Silver/Gold throughout.

post #4 of 31

routing

post #5 of 31


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by downsize View Post

From everything I have read on the forums, most everyone considers the B22 to be the ultimate solid state amplifier. I heard one at a meet once, and was very, very unimpressed. But other members who were there, assured me it was a poor example of a Beta 22.

 

By question is, if a person decides to build a 3 board, active ground B22, and uses good wire, and chassis connectors, what else would the builder need to consider to make sure he gets the sound everyone ultimately praises as the best ?


what was the source and cans?   any reasons given why it was a poor example?

 

as long as the amp was built per spec, biased properly, noise free, and obviously working, i doubt any wire or routing would change your mind.


Edited by fishski13 - 6/14/10 at 4:43pm
post #6 of 31
Thread Starter 


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by fishski13 View Post


 


what was the source and cans?   any reasons given why it was a poor example?

 

as long as the amp was built per spec, biased properly, noise free, and obviously working, i doubt any wire or routing would change your mind.


Well .... This was a situation where everyone was trying to be polite, and not offend the owner. Unfortunately this means I don't have any real answers to your questions. Cans were Hifiman planars.

post #7 of 31

Time for you to hear another Beta22 off a good source, with good quality music and with good headphones.  Also, as those Hifiman planar headphones are EXTREMELY inefficient, a using low gain won't be too much fun, or perhaps you just didn't like the headphones (I personally didn't, but I'm a Grado fan) 

post #8 of 31

I agree with the comments others have offered and would look at the source. If the source seemed nice, or better if you are familiar with the source, perhaps the B22 is simply not your cup of tea. Theres nothing wrong with that.

 

One of the worst things about meets is that its often quite hard to hear an amp on a source you are familiar with. Reducing/eliminating variables can be tricky.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by FallenAngel View Post

Time for you to hear another Beta22 off a good source, with good quality music and with good headphones.  Also, as those Hifiman planar headphones are EXTREMELY inefficient, a using low gain won't be too much fun

 

If the headphones/speakers are playing at your desired volume level and the volume knob is not allllll the way up against the maximum volume level there is enough gain. If you have never spun the volume knob all the way up with your least efficient headphones there is too much gain. Considering gain-bandwidth-products, the fact that random noise in op-amps generally increases as gain increases, and how normal resistive/wasteful attenuators work having your gain set a little on the low side is generally better than a little on the high side.

 

Whether my standard of "enough" and "too much" gain applies under meet conditions where even the best of us listen a decent bit louder than we do at home is a bit of a debatable point.

post #9 of 31


 

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikongod View Post

 

If the headphones/speakers are playing at your desired volume level and the volume knob is not allllll the way up against the maximum volume level there is enough gain. If you have never spun the volume knob all the way up with your least efficient headphones there is too much gain. Considering gain-bandwidth-products, the fact that random noise in op-amps generally increases as gain increases, and how normal resistive/wasteful attenuators work having your gain set a little on the low side is generally better than a little on the high side.

 

Whether my standard of "enough" and "too much" gain applies under meet conditions where even the best of us listen a decent bit louder than we do at home is a bit of a debatable point.

 

x2.  my Fostex FR speakers sound great with my Pass DIY B1 buffer at 5 o'clock, my 1.4VRM y2 DAC,  and Gainclone with 13 dB gain .  9 o'clock is sooo yesterday and unnecessary.  

 

i can easily wick up my 8x gain B22 to 3 o'clock with older ECM digital recordings driving my K702 though.
 


Edited by fishski13 - 6/14/10 at 9:29pm
post #10 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Doug View Post

routing


what do you mean by routing?

post #11 of 31


Quote:

Originally Posted by tranhieu View Post

what do you mean by routing?


Where you put the wires in the case. 

post #12 of 31

i thought neat wiring would be enough? what else do you need to look out for so that the sound quality is not affected?

post #13 of 31

neat actually has very little to do with it - the real trick is keeping signal wires as far away from power wires as possible, and DEFINITELY not having them run in parallel close to each other.  any time they must cross, it should be done at 90 degree angles.  these two things should reduce noise by quite a margin, but it still takes a lot of time and a lot of tweaking by moving the wiring around until you reach perfection
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tranhieu View Post

i thought neat wiring would be enough? what else do you need to look out for so that the sound quality is not affected?

post #14 of 31

does this also apply in 2-case situation, where the psu is in a separate box?

post #15 of 31

yes, but not NEARLY as much.  once you go 2-box, 90% of the challenge goes away :) 

 

at least, so says MoodySteve
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tranhieu View Post

does this also apply in 2-case situation, where the psu is in a separate box?

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