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Shure SE535: Reviews and First Impressions Thread - Page 194

post #2896 of 3307
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mooses9 View Post
 

when you get to a certain point, certain price point IMO nothing becomes better or worse, but different really they all play on the same field but have ''differences''. so its really hard to say one is better than another they have different aspects they bring to the table.

 

I'd pretty much agree with this.  At that price point "most" iems have low distortion, "smooth" frequency response, good design, etc.  It's just that the multiple drivers might help give more bass or the signature is a different shape.  I for one prefer only very neutral, flat graphed earphones/headphones.  However, that doesn't mean I think something like the shure 535 is bad.  In fact, it sounds excellent.  It ultimately wasn't for me, because i like extended treble, but that can be good for some people that find treble sibilant or harsh.  It gives an iem a more comfortable sound sometimes.  Same with treble.  You might have low bass, but some people like that, because it brings the details out in your face more so you can pick out every little nuance.  I just prefer a balanced overall sound myself.

post #2897 of 3307
Quote:
Originally Posted by luisdent View Post
 

 

I'd pretty much agree with this.  At that price point "most" iems have low distortion, "smooth" frequency response, good design, etc.  It's just that the multiple drivers might help give more bass or the signature is a different shape.  I for one prefer only very neutral, flat graphed earphones/headphones.  However, that doesn't mean I think something like the shure 535 is bad.  In fact, it sounds excellent.  It ultimately wasn't for me, because i like extended treble, but that can be good for some people that find treble sibilant or harsh.  It gives an iem a more comfortable sound sometimes.  Same with treble.  You might have low bass, but some people like that, because it brings the details out in your face more so you can pick out every little nuance.  I just prefer a balanced overall sound myself.

i agree. personally i dont nor ever have used a eq to change the sound signature of a iem, i dont want to create a synthetic sound that the iem cant naturally create on its own. i also prefer a balanced overall sound which i think the w4r give me. but the se535's forward midrange is  phenomenal with vocals, also with my rig i find it to be a pretty revealing iem, for instance today i was listening to birdy ''skinny love'' and as she is playing the piano you can hear every crick and creek of the bench she is sitting on while playing. 

 

it can also be the other components of the rig creating such a revealing sound but never the less. im very happy i went back to the se535.

 

im also a big believer in dacs,amps,cables and interconnects and feel one cant truly know how capable a iem is just straight out of a ipod, or even a dap i mean unless we are talking a hm901 or AK120 but even then you could build a portable rig with a dac and amp that can further surpass any one daps ability. i feel alot of iem's get judged unfairly as people plug them into a ipod and say well thats how they sound.. so not true, throw them on a high end rig and your opinion will change vastly.

 

and having a high end rig is what kept me in the universal iem market owning both the w4r and the se535 as the rig allows for the iem's to go to full potential or full potential of the rig and they sound phenomenal...are there better iem's? yes....at the same price point? no

post #2898 of 3307
Thread Starter 

Just a point of note:  Just because an IEM has a big amount of bass doesn't mean it is prone to "covering up" or bleeding into other frequencies.  There are lots of IEM's that do big bass and tons of detail and clarity.

post #2899 of 3307

To some degree that is not true.  Yes, while you can have bass and details you can't have every frequency sound balanced if any one frequency is above the rest.  This isn't an opinion either, this is a scientific fact with plenty of audio science backing it up.  When most people have a bassy headphone that also has details it's because the treble is boosted as well.  This is usually a V-shaped headphone.  You lose mid details here.  So while things might sound "crisp" and "detailed" you are actually losing "mid detail".  Some people like this.  There's nothing wrong with that.  But the fact is that the bass and treble are "masking" the mid frequencies.

 

You can have something like the mh1, which has pretty good smooth flat frequency response, but extra bass.  This sounds o.k., because the whole spectrum is smooth, but there is still slight masking of everything above the bass.  It may not be extremely noticeable, but as you raise a frequency area further there will be a point where it is more noticeable.

 

That isn't the whole picture though.  There are audio properties like decay, delay, impulse response, distortion, etc.  These all affect the sound, sometimes in ways people wouldn't expect.  For instance, having more decay in the bass area can give the bass a fuller or thicker sound, which some might think sounds "bassier".  However to get an real audible difference you need the increase of the bass frequencies, so there is a difference there.  But even if it did sound bassier to someone, by the time you added enough decay to make it truly sound noticeably bassier, say by 10db or something, it would sound like crap from the amount of decay.  But that's not even really possible, it's just an exaggeration to show the point.

 

So if you want extra bass you lose a bit of everything else from the bass masking everything else.  To get "true" detail of the full audio spectrum all of the frequencies need to be equally portrayed.  Now, you can have some degree of bass or any other area boosted or cut to a degree without really changing the overall sound "that" much.  This is why there is a debate over earphones having +6db of bass to replicate the sound of a speaker.  The pro is that you get more bass, and to some people that "feels" or "seems" more like the bass impact of a speaker.  To others, even if this is true, they may find the bass masks the other frequencies too much.

 

Anyhow, don't mistake "an iem having a lot of bass" with "an iem being able to reproduce a lot of bass".  These are two very different things.  When I say bassy iem, I'm talking about an iem that permanently has all of the bass frequencies boosted.  Everything that you hear through them will have more bass than neutral.  On the other hand, if a very flat iem has good "extension" down very low, and a song demands a lot of bass be reproduced, this earphone will pound out that bass, but when no bass is present it will not boost anything else.

 

A lot of iems lack truly good sub bass performance, because they don't extend that low.  Some iems accept that to remain flat.  Others boost the whole low bass region to compensate.  If you left it boosted, things would sound muffled and warm, so they usually boost the treble to "bring back the treble".  This is really bringing the treble back to or closer to the bass level.  This leaves you with lower mids and thus a "V" shaped sound.

 

So, anyhow, as I started saying, in general there are some things that can change the perception of the bass a bit, but overall frequencies are either boosted and mask other frequencies or are reduced and allow other frequencies to dominate or are balanced and allow all frequencies to be heard equally.  The last thing I'll mention is our hearing.

 

Humans are less sensitive to really low sub bass.  So boosting the sub bass a lot may not result in our "hearing a lot" more sub bass compared to boosting other frequencies.  These are also the frequencies that really give bass that deep kicking power.  So while they too will mask things when they reach a point, they can be boosted to some degree with less obvious masking than other frequencies.  And since most iems lack real low sub bass anyway, boosting this area is actually bringing it closer to flat on some iems, such as the er4s for example as that lacks sub bass compared to the rest of the spectrum.  Whereas something like the xba has good extension and sub bass already, so boosting it would start to mask other things.


Edited by luisdent - 11/7/13 at 7:56pm
post #2900 of 3307
Thread Starter 

Good insight....and I am not really a technical guy but.....

 

So if that is true why wouldnt it work in the other direction?  Why wouldn't  a treble boosted IEM like ER4 mask the frequencies just below as well?....

post #2901 of 3307
ER4 is not treble boosted....if anything it's midrange boosted..1--3k.
post #2902 of 3307
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyro View Post
 

Good insight....and I am not really a technical guy but.....

 

So if that is true why wouldnt it work in the other direction?  Why wouldn't  a treble boosted IEM like ER4 mask the frequencies just below as well?....

 

It absolutely does.  If anyone tells you otherwise they haven't heard the er4s with a good EQ.  You don't hear kick drums the way they are supposed to really sound on the er4s, why?  Because the rest of the spectrum is above the sub bass level.  It isn't as large of a difference with the er4s because first, it isn't really missing "that" much sub bass and second, the overall spectrum is very smooth, so it's a gradual change versus some other iems where one area is sharply boosted over the rest.

 

But again, I've posted an er4s eq on the er4s thread, and it really brings out the sub bass to a more flat level and lowers that 1-3khz area we discussed and it is very "clear" there is a difference in how much you can hear.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inks View Post

ER4 is not treble boosted....if anything it's midrange boosted..1--3k.

 

Correct, the er4s is very flat with a small hump at 1-3khz.  That is more mid range or mid/low treble.

post #2903 of 3307
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inks View Post

ER4 is not treble boosted....if anything it's midrange boosted..1--3k.

And this is the disagreement that will never die with me.  I HAVE sat in studios with musicians playing.

 

I could pick a bunch of different IEM's but what I hear is much closer to a SE535 type of sound than a ER4...PERIOD.  I don't know what else I could say.

 

Is the disconnect having the speaker pick-ups directed right into the instruments versus versus a broader range of the room itself?  Ety presentation sounds wired directly to the skull which is NOT what it sounds like when I am sitting live in the studio.  Can anyone explain this?

 

P.S.   By the way, Etymotic should think about changing the Dennis Smith endorsement (Police sound engineer) on their website for ER4.   The 40 year old band is as outdated as their IEM's are.  Even U2 or REM would be only 20 years old.


Edited by Spyro - 11/10/13 at 4:08pm
post #2904 of 3307
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyro View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inks View Post

ER4 is not treble boosted....if anything it's midrange boosted..1--3k.

And this is the disagreement that will never die with me.  I HAVE sat in studios with musicians playing.

 

I could pick a bunch of different IEM's but what I hear is much closer to a SE535 type of sound than a ER4...PERIOD.  I don't know what else I could say.

 

Is the disconnect having the speaker pick-ups directed right into the instruments versus versus a broader range of the room itself?  Ety presentation sounds wired directly to the skull which is NOT what it sounds like when I am sitting live in the studio.  Can anyone explain this?

 

P.S.   By the way, Etymotic should think about changing the Dennis Smith endorsement (Police sound engineer) on their website for ER4.   The 40 year old band is as outdated as their IEM's are.  Even U2 or REM would be only 20 years old.

 

You should try my er4s eq, but I agree, the er4s stock doesn't really sound like a studio monitor directly, but has the flattest response mimicking "most" of a studio monitor's response.  The 535 probably sounds better to you because it is very flat from bass to mids giving a more speaker like "feel" and "body", but the 535 has horrible treble and thus lacks the depth and clarity to sound anything like a real studio monitor, unless your studio monitor is horribly crippled in the treble.  I don't know a studio that would allow a monitor to have treble that cut off, nor do I know a studio monitor that would allow a lack of low bass like the ety.  In truth though, they are both pretty accurate, but lack one end or the other.  The ety just lacks a lot "less" of the end that it is lacking.

 

Anyway, try the mh1 with a slight bass cut around 125hz a few db or more depending on insertion depth.  That's the closest thing I've heard to a monitor sound in overall "tone" and presence...

post #2905 of 3307
Regardless the se535 are a exceptionally great uiem for the price. Excellent square wave response....and I feel like the shures sound depends on the other equipment in the rig you are using...I find the highs to good extension with my rig....I didnt find the same thing with my old rig and the se535 so I think there is somethimg to be had with a good rig and the se535...also I find the sound reproduction to be pretty stellar considdring it only has 3 drivers.
post #2906 of 3307
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mooses9 View Post

Regardless the se535 are a exceptionally great uiem for the price. Excellent square wave response....and I feel like the shures sound depends on the other equipment in the rig you are using...I find the highs to good extension with my rig....I didnt find the same thing with my old rig and the se535 so I think there is somethimg to be had with a good rig and the se535...also I find the sound reproduction to be pretty stellar considdring it only has 3 drivers.

 

Oh absolutely.  The 535, 4r, er4s... those are all some of the best values in iems but with their own signatures.  All of them are high quality, durable, comfortable, etc.  It's just the signature depends on what you're looking for.

post #2907 of 3307
Quote:
Originally Posted by luisdent View Post

Oh absolutely.  The 535, 4r, er4s... those are all some of the best values in iems but with their own signatures.  All of them are high quality, durable, comfortable, etc.  It's just the signature depends on what you're looking for.

Completely agree. You almost have to buy them all. Ihad to buy both the se535 and the w4r to satisfy my thirst. They both offered something the other didnt and needed both to satisfy the need on one hand and the other. I used to think one was better tham the other I now find that not to be true...its like what hands better your left or right?
post #2908 of 3307
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mooses9 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by luisdent View Post

Oh absolutely.  The 535, 4r, er4s... those are all some of the best values in iems but with their own signatures.  All of them are high quality, durable, comfortable, etc.  It's just the signature depends on what you're looking for.

Completely agree. You almost have to buy them all. Ihad to buy both the se535 and the w4r to satisfy my thirst. They both offered something the other didnt and needed both to satisfy the need on one hand and the other. I used to think one was better tham the other I now find that not to be true...its like what hands better your left or right?
Nice btg w4r cable! Does that have an inline resistor? A 100ohm resistor in the cable like the er4s would be awesome. I love my btg lod cable. Very flexible but durable.
post #2909 of 3307
Quote:
Originally Posted by luisdent View Post


Nice btg w4r cable! Does that have an inline resistor? A 100ohm resistor in the cable like the er4s would be awesome. I love my btg lod cable. Very flexible but durable.

no that cable didnt have the inline resistor but that would have been nice. Ive since sold the BTG cable but it was great quality,

 

now have a Custom Toxic Cables Silver Poison Terminated to RSA Balanced + Whiplash Twag V2 Pure Silver for the w4r.....and i have a Symbiote Nucleotide Double Helix Cable for my SE535

 

i went with the DHC OCC Copper becuase i have a Toxic Silver Poison Interconnect between my RSA SR-71B and Ibasso DB2 and found the amp dac combo to be somewhat bright....the DHC copper brings in warmth to the se535 but is crystal clear, i said that in the DHC thread i was so Dumbfounded by how the DHC is warm, but not dark, and crystal clear like your looking through a window with it open. the DHC cable is a gem

post #2910 of 3307

Can someone make a comparison between the CK100 and SE535 LTD-J. Kind of interested in the Shures. How do these differ?

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