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Shure SE535: Reviews and First Impressions Thread - Page 82

post #1216 of 3236
Quote:
Originally Posted by shane55 View Post




OK MKang25, I really appreciate your reporting on these, but you're kind of confusing me.... 

A post two up you say the highs are better on the 535, then this one says the seeming opposite. Am I getting it wrong?

Regardless... what you've said so far has been great and valuable. Thanks.

 

Don't rush, my friend. Take your time. No need to get down every little nuance. We're not going anywhere. I am not in a rush to get these... they're not on sale anywhere (unlike the Coppers and D7000), so I'm not sweating it.

And besides, my SE535's haven't sold yet (come on folks, it;s a great deal !). 

 

So I'm sure this weekend you'll be testing with various tips and music and really taking your time to figure out these babies.    

 

cheers

 

shane

 

 

I did? Maybe it was a typo but I don't see it. The high extension and detail is definitely better with the UM3x.
 

post #1217 of 3236

^ x2 @shane, I had to read it twice to get it right. So the weirdness in treble on the UM3X is only due to lack of energy and sparkle, but treble clarity and extension are both better than the SE535's? I must admit this sounds kinda strange to me, of the phones I've heard the ones with clearest treble had also the most treble energy.


Edited by james444 - 8/28/10 at 12:46pm
post #1218 of 3236
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKang25 View Post

I think maybe the closed in feeling is giving me that fatigue feeling. Treble impact is better with the 535s, I personally prefer the Shure Mids, but the High extension, clarity and treble clarity is better with the UM3x.


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MKang25 View Post

Well after a while I have noticed some things. The treble is weird with these... On one hand they are really detailed, but they seem to lack some sparkle that the 535s have, i.e cymbal crashes seem to have no life or energy. And I can't quite put my finger on it but something feels a bit fatiguing.

 

I quoted in the reverse order since I couldn't do it the other way for some reason but these two posts are somewhat confusing since typically more sparkle usually means better treble but apparently not in this case?
 

post #1219 of 3236

I just digest what MKang25 said about the treble, since there are a few owners of SM3 said that the treble of SM3 is very detail though laid-back :)


Edited by KLS - 8/28/10 at 6:22pm
post #1220 of 3236

It does sound somewhat contradictory but if you heard the UM3X it does ring true. I found that the UM3X was a detailed but dull phone. It deadened the sound of music in a way that I had not encountered with any other phone that I have heard. The SE530 was a comparatively more lively phone, and it had more treble energy than the UM3X despite its slightly rolled-off highs. I remember someone else posting a similar comment in the old UM3X v SE530 thread. I found it difficult to fathom at the time until I compared the UM3X to the SE530 for myself. Treble extension and detail does not equate to treble energy.


Edited by TheJudge - 8/28/10 at 6:26pm
post #1221 of 3236
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJudge View Post

It does sound somewhat contradictory but if you heard the UM3X it does ring true. I found that the UM3X was a detailed but dull phone. It deadened the sound of music in a way that I had not encountered with any other phone that I have heard. The SE530 was a comparatively more lively phone, and it had more treble energy than the UM3X despite its slightly rolled-off highs. I remember someone else posting a similar comment in the old UM3X v SE530 thread. I found it difficult to fathom at the time until I compared the UM3X to the SE530 for myself. Treble extension and detail does not equate to treble energy.


Spot on. I think Jokers multi IEM comparison also found the same similarities. I don't think I am going to be keeping the UM3xs, will probably be returning them.

post #1222 of 3236
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKang25 View Post

Spot on. I think Jokers multi IEM comparison also found the same similarities. I don't think I am going to be keeping the UM3xs, will probably be returning them.


No kidding...?

So, compared to the highs of the SM3. More, clearer, same, brighter, extended? Do they go higher, but are recessed slightly?

 

When listening to the SE535, I have pictured the curve as an upside down U. Mids, mids, mids. Dropped out bass and rolled-off highs. Outstanding mids. Not overly bright as they dump the highs at 8khz or so. My tests gave me almost nothing 10 khz and up. so does the UM3x go higher, but it's subdued, not prominent?

 

What would be the main reason you are selling?

 

Thanks... sorry for all the questions, but I'm really trying to get a feel for these as I'm interested in trying them, but would rather not deal with the (buying and) selling of another IEM... which seems more difficult than any full size. I still haven't sold the SE535... even at a very good price. 

 

cheers

 

shane

post #1223 of 3236

It's all about presentation.  For example, you can take three very treble savvy earphones, the CK10, the Triple.Fi 10, and the RE252.  All three of these offer both excellent quality of treble as well as limitless extension on the top end.  At the same time, they present the sound different from each other.  The CK10 offers the most micro detail and raw information but is also slightly tame in terms dynamics and edginess.  The RE252 is a little more direct in presentation and although it has less micro detail it has a little more emphasis and edge to the note.  The Triple.Fi 10 carries good detail and a decently edgy note but also a sweetness.

 

Stepping back to the SE530, the extension is actually there.   If you run a frequency response test, it actually doesn't roll off on the top end.  However, it is recessed a little bit that slightly makes the highs a little behind the midrange.  This apparently was one key aspect Shure fixed with the SE535, so I expect a great top end on the SE535.  The SE530 was good, but it had some sort of phase or time delay issue either with placement or x-over that delayed that treble just a little bit.  The UM3X is more towards the CK10 in that it offers a lot of detail.  It isn't the same, more like the ER4S than anything else.  I want to add the frequency response that I hear with the UM3X.  This might give some insight into why it sounds the way it does.

 

UM3X Response.jpgTh

 

The dip has to do with the x-over.  I don't know if it's just gapped or out of phase or specifically geared to have that response.  I will note that this response may actually be close to mic flat if we compare it to the ER4S response graph.  The ER4S has nearly the inverse of this response and is perceived as close to flat once we take ear effect out of the equation.  Maybe Westone ignored the idea of the 2kHz natural boost lost from an in-ear setup, or maybe they had different intentions with the earphone.  It may end up being tip sensitive and shallow versus deep insertion too.  I know they sounded a bit different with the long Comply tips versus the short ones or swapping to the Shure foams.  It's tough to say.  Now this is also how my ear hears "flat," so take my response above with that in mind.  I haven't owned an ER4S for a while, so I can't directly reference back to it.  I know when I did toy with frequency response testing, I did perceive it as relatively flat, but that's apples to oranges without more recent use or a direct comparison.

 

accuracy-graphic3.jpg

I'd be fun to grab another ER4S again.  I liked the earphone, but I still think it's a bit limited in breadth of capability sticking to a single driver.  I'm curious how different the SE535 is to the SE530, not so much the big picture but in the small details.  I did perceive those as relatively flat short the slightly recessed highs (now fixed) and low frequency roll off.

 

I've bought and sold two UM3X earphones.  I've sold them for the same reason twice: lack of realism.  They offer a very revealing and detailed sound, but they are blatantly artificial in presentation, and it's something I could never justify holding onto.  I have come to view them more as a tool than a musical device.  They're a high level tool that's competitive in performance with most everything out there, but they function more towards a tool than a musical device.  If they were less artificial, they'd be awesome, but it would require a whole different package of drivers and essentially a new sounding earphone to do so. 

 

On the contrary, the SE530 I owned was one of only a couple very realistic sounding earphones I've used.  It has a very lifelike presence, although I felt the notes lacked body to create a full enough presence.  I sold the SE530 too though because it was too limited with the low end roll off, recessed highs, and goofy sound stage placement (apparently improved on the SE535 too).  Although I have a hard time justifying straight out buying a pair, I'd love to demo a pair sometime to see how the differences improved the end product.  If the SE5535 is improved enough, it could regain competitive status in my eyes. 

 

Too bad I know I like a thicker, more textured note though.  I really like the ER4S, Custom 3, UM3X, and CK10 for this as they offer a more robust note than the commonly thought of squeaky clean BA sound.

post #1224 of 3236

@mvw2, I would say I heard the FR of the UM3x similarly to what you've conjured up, though, nowhere near as brutal. I could definitely detect a dip around 2-4kHz but only by 2 or so decibels and even less when I used short comply tips.

 

I do agree on your presentation part. The UM3x does not offer a crisp treble like other IEMs I have heard such as the PFE's, X10's or CK90Pros. It sounds blunter/dampened but without lacking any detail and far better extension than any iem i've heard to date. I would actually prefer they held back in that respect as I had a few troubles with them in the super high freq range that I haven't had with any other iem to that extent. It was the sole reason I had to let them go.

post #1225 of 3236

The midrange isn't perceived all that significantly as having a big dip.  Also realize the scale of the dip.  For a casual listener, something within 3dB up or down isn't all that noticeable.  Even if significant, dips and peaks are not major issues if done with specific intent.  Coloration is good when people want it.  Plus there's always EQing to fix this.  For comparison, the popular CK10 has a rather strong spike at 10kHz that's 9dB high, narrow mind you but significant.  To the end listener, this simply creates a somewhat hot and in some cases spitty top end, acceptable for some.  The Triple.Fi 10 also has a very significant gain on the top end but it's broad and smoothly flowing which makes it dominant over the midrange but also less annoying.  Recessed mids like above are not terrible as they do help emphasis lows and highs.  I'm just curious if Westone had specific goals for this earphone given it's supposed to be used by artist on stage.  It's just that they seem to be more of a tool than anything else.

 

post #1226 of 3236
Quote:
Originally Posted by shane55 View Post




No kidding...?

So, compared to the highs of the SM3. More, clearer, same, brighter, extended? Do they go higher, but are recessed slightly?

 

When listening to the SE535, I have pictured the curve as an upside down U. Mids, mids, mids. Dropped out bass and rolled-off highs. Outstanding mids. Not overly bright as they dump the highs at 8khz or so. My tests gave me almost nothing 10 khz and up. so does the UM3x go higher, but it's subdued, not prominent?

 

What would be the main reason you are selling?

 

Thanks... sorry for all the questions, but I'm really trying to get a feel for these as I'm interested in trying them, but would rather not deal with the (buying and) selling of another IEM... which seems more difficult than any full size. I still haven't sold the SE535... even at a very good price. 

 

cheers

 

shane

 

It feels very closed in when I am listening to it and not sure how to exactly describe it but the 535s just seem more smooth and non fatiguing to listen to. The UM3x has very fine micro details, but i guess as these were designed to be for stage monitors it does not seem to be present the music as a "whole". this is just my opinion. The UM3x are a very good IEM just not my cup of tea.
 

post #1227 of 3236
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvw2 View Post

Too bad I know I like a thicker, more textured note though.  I really like the ER4S, Custom 3, UM3X, and CK10 for this as they offer a more robust note than the commonly thought of squeaky clean BA sound.


Oh man, x10!  Squeaky clean BA sound, you nailed that right.  Pasteurized music, eww.

post #1228 of 3236

So I've had mine now for several months and I listened to them for several hours today at work and I was still very much impressed with the SE535s! Hat's off to Shure for "fixing" the small issues with the SE530s (rolled off treble, the construction and improved sound stage imaging).

 

I couldn't believe the sound quality I was getting un-amped off my iPhone from these tiny IEMs! Definitely going down as a very good purchase for 2010! As much as I enjoy my Westone 3s, they just haven't been getting the use since the SE535s arrived.

post #1229 of 3236
Thread Starter 

I would agree.  The SE535 is clearly a better IEM than the W3 and I am a big fan of W3.  Yes, SE535 is incredible unamped out of an Ipod product!  But I do use the "rock" EQ setting as I do believe a "flat" or "off" eq would be too lean and too neutral sounding for my ears.  A little boost on top and bottom makes the SE535 sound miraculous!

post #1230 of 3236

Well... since mine haven't sold yet, i thought I'd take 'em around the block.

Tried something kwkarth recommended... but somewhat differently than before. I took the Complys and cut the tips down to the core. I've done this in the past, but always angled the cut so that it looked like a hollow-point bullet. This time I cut it flat across the top just at the end of the plastic core. 

 

I had thought the Sure Olives were #1 for both fit and sound. This seemed to better it slightly. Fits a bit more securely and I was able to achieve a better bass response. It's not like the SM3 bass, but that's fine. It's now like the DT880 bass. There, but not overwhelming or slamming. I actually would like more bass, but this was good, very good.

 

Fit is still annoying and somewhat difficult and I would like to be able to get the tips in a bit deeper, but there is certainly promise here. They really sounded very good today. I'm thinking of pulling the FS ad and keeping them.

The DBA-02's are due in early next week. This should be interesting. I may hold on to them until they show up.

 

I also happened to order a D7000. I've got a couple weeks before they arrive, so I'll be able to do some serious comparisons with the SE535 and DBA-02.

 

Cheers

 

shane

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