Just about to Pull the Trigger on DENNON AHD2000 - Page 3

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graphicism 

I don't think there is any exaggeration going on, I think it all comes down to price over performance. Much like Bose are slammed around here not simply because they sound bad but because they come with a high price tag. I've said before the Denons are a $30 headphone in a fancy shell... if they were priced at $30 I would change my tone, I'd even go as far as recommending them.

Have you ever tried the MarkL modded Denons?

Quote:

Originally Posted by kelvanE 

 

 

It has a very nice bass that DOES extend very low. That is impressive. I cannot imagine how other people could rave, either positively or otherwise, about its bass so much. For me, I noticed that the tippy-top highs seemed pretty harsh on the Denons, which I dialed back just a bit to combat.

 

Proper amping and to an extent also source can help the highs in the cymbals and sparkle region from being too harsh or too much. 

When I plug the D2000 in to the headphone out on my desktop computer (Realtek onboard audio using DirectSound) the highs around the cymbals get some added harshness and sparkle.  That also has some affect on sibilance also.  More sibilance using the Realtek onboard headphone out.

When I route the line out from the Realtek through my x-head amp the harshenss in the highs is reduced.  Same with sibilance a bit.

When I use the M-Audio FW410 as source (using ASIO) and the x-head as an amp the highs are yet more reigned in and controlled and even less harsh.  So there is an affect from source as well, but the amping affect is more important.

I haven't tried the D2000 direct from a laptop.  It's on my list of things to try the D2000 with, but I don't own a laptop so would need to borrow one long enough to play with the audio.  I suspect that the onboard laptop audio will be even less kind to the D2000 highs than the onboard headphone out on my desktop computer.

The Denons do like to have proper amping.  Not necessarily expensive amping, just proper as in giving the Denon what it needs in terms of power and current.  Output impedance of the amp may have some bearing as well.  I don't know what the output impedance is for the onboard Realtek audio headphone out.

As for the bass, just remember that head-fi is dominated by team treble head and team AKG.  Bass quantity scares them, even if that bass quantity is exactly what it should be compared to a full range big speaker setup.  :)

I consider the bass quantity with the D2000 to be just right most of the time.  It could use some improvement in tightening it up and less bloom.  Quantity wise it is right in line with where it should be.  I listen to acoustic and rock and jazz and classical.  Not much electronic and no R&B hip-hop where big bass can be desired.

Quote:

Originally Posted by maverickronin 

 

If you're looking for looking for lots of tight bass plus some serious sparkle then I'd recommend the DT990/600s.  I loved everything about them except for the excessive (to my ears, anyway) treble.  I'm most likely going to return them soon and keep the D2000s.

 

 

The DT990/600 have way too much treble and sparkle highs for me.  Uncomfortably too much (ouch, my ears, that really is uncomfortable to hear).  The D2000 gets the highs just right for me.  I don't want more sparkle than what the Denons deliver.  Even the T1 delivers too much sparkle.  Less than the DT990/600, but still too much for me.  The Beyer sound just doesn't seem to agree with me.  I'd like to like them cause they'd otherwise be a good headphone.  They just need to be tamed in the highs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ham Sandwich 

The DT990/600 have way too much treble and sparkle highs for me.  Uncomfortably too much (ouch, my ears, that really is uncomfortable to hear).  The D2000 gets the highs just right for me.  I don't want more sparkle than what the Denons deliver.  Even the T1 delivers too much sparkle.  Less than the DT990/600, but still too much for me.  The Beyer sound just doesn't seem to agree with me.  I'd like to like them cause they'd otherwise be a good headphone.  They just need to be tamed in the highs.

I completely agree but with the 250 ohm model (as I haven't heard the 600 ohm model). FWIR the highs are better on the 600 ohm but it would have to be a HUGE difference to make them what I'd like. I can only listen to it for a 20 minutes before I have to take them off. I really want to love them as I enjoy a lot of their other attributes but the treble is mighty wicked.

What's with Beyer anyway? I had a DT880 and couldn't abide it for more than a few seconds. I found I could only listen to it with the treble on my integrated amp on minimum. Then I looked at the Headroom graph and realized why. What's with a firm that puts out products that are so fiercely bright they're unlistenable? Now they're asking super bucks for a flagship product that has a similar response to the 880.

i think you'll be happy with the dbi Pro 700 from ebay for $40. It's a steal.

http://cgi.ebay.com/dbi-Pro-700-Over-Ear-Heaphones-German-Made-/200413838417?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Other_MP3_Player_Accessories&hash=item2ea9987c51#ht_500wt_1154

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ham Sandwich 

The DT990/600 have way too much treble and sparkle highs for me.  Uncomfortably too much (ouch, my ears, that really is uncomfortable to hear).  The D2000 gets the highs just right for me.  I don't want more sparkle than what the Denons deliver.  Even the T1 delivers too much sparkle.  Less than the DT990/600, but still too much for me.  The Beyer sound just doesn't seem to agree with me.  I'd like to like them cause they'd otherwise be a good headphone.  They just need to be tamed in the highs.

Ham

I agree with you 100%. I just can't bear the sharp ringing/brightness on the beyer DT990/600. I would easily get fatigued by their harshness within the first 45 min. And i know that I'm not the only one because i did a search and this has happened to many many other users.

I did notice that my tube pins on my Woo Audio 3 amp were kinda dirty, so i ordered some cheap $10 deoxit kit, so I'm hoping that'll help some-what. But I honestly am ready to part away with the 990's.  Even youtube videos have become harsh and annoying cause a-lot of those bumpy spikes and piercings.

the same thing happens to my 880's as well,  but it's a tad bit less noticable with the 990's because of their bass.  Are there any treble problems with the Denon D2000? I was thinking about getting sennheiser HD 650 since i have an OTL tube amp and higher impedance are better for this type of amp. Maybe I'll get the Senn's for now and later what I upgrade to a tranformer coupled (like a Woo Audio 6 or something) I'll be able to try out the Denon's then.
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by pp312 

 

What's with Beyer anyway? I had a DT880 and couldn't abide it for more than a few seconds. I found I could only listen to it with the treble on my integrated amp on minimum. Then I looked at the Headroom graph and realized why. What's with a firm that puts out products that are so fiercely bright they're unlistenable? Now they're asking super bucks for a flagship product that has a similar response to the 880.

 

 

I honestly have no idea. But if my deoxit tube cleaning kit fails, I'm never getting close to a beyerdynamic product ever, ever again. And they call it their "flagship" model. Give me a break.
 

Some like it, some don't. You have to try it out yourself instead of relying on someone else's ears.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HariBhushan 

the same thing happens to my 880's as well,  but it's a tad bit less noticable with the 990's because of their bass.  Are there any treble problems with the Denon D2000? I was thinking about getting sennheiser HD 650 since i have an OTL tube amp and higher impedance are better for this type of amp. Maybe I'll get the Senn's for now and later what I upgrade to a tranformer coupled (like a Woo Audio 6 or something) I'll be able to try out the Denon's then.
 

I don't personally have any treble problems with the D2000.  Some people do though.  And some people complain about sibilance.  But I think some of that is due to people under-amping them, trying to drive them with a portable amp or a USB powered DAC or some other under-amped source.  I'm not sensitive to or bothered by sibilance (I own a SR325is after all) so any sibilance with the D2000 isn't an issue for me.  I consider the D2000 to just give whatever sibilance is in the recording without adding to it or softening it.  A headphone like the HD600 softens sibilance.  Some headphones like a Sony V6 will add to sibilance.

I've heard a HD580 and HD600 with a Woo 3.  It is very nice.  There is no sennheiser veil with that setup.  I haven't listened to a HD650 with a Woo of any flavor.  The Sennheiser is laid back and not an aggressive rocker style of sound.  It's more comfortable with Grateful Dead style rock, jazz and classical.  Whether it can do more aggressive rock to your liking will depend on your personal preferences and how loud you like to listen (the HD600 likes you to crank it up to get more excitement out of it).

If you want smooth and no treble peaks or anything that could possibly bother you, hold out for an Audeze LCD-2 and get an amp that can drive them.  :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ham Sandwich 

 

 

If you want smooth and no treble peaks or anything that could possibly bother you, hold out for an Audeze LCD-2 and get an amp that can drive them.  :)

     Tempting, but that would probably leave a serious dent in my wallet for years and years, not to mention the amping   Seriously, this is a very dangerous post Ham. You really should behave yourself :P

Generally, I am the person that has no clue on how to equalize a headphone -- even if you payed me all the money in the world, I still would do a terrible job, LOL.. I'm sure the beyers would sound awesome if they were equalized, but this is something in which i truly suck bad at.

And after listening to beyerdynamic for so long, anything [else] would pretty much sound like heaven to my ears.  I listen to all music categories rock, pop, electronic, vocals, instrumentals, hip-hop, drum and bass. I listen to them all !  and i really do like that spicy fun bass kick that the DT990's delivered, it was just the unbearing treble that has made me hate these headphones so much. DT880's are awesome with gaming and movies, and you can't really notice the treble in that area, but they are completely lifeless to me in music.

I'm guessing the Denon D2000 might be the ones that i could live with since their treble isn't too fatiguing. But i have read that the bass on the HD650's scale quite well for all types of music. It may not have the oomph or sub bass kick that I'm looking for, but as long as Equalizing isn't necessary and the treble is smooth, I will be a very happy camper.  How would you rate the bass on the HD600's tho?

Quote:

Originally Posted by NapalmK 

Quote:

I completely agree but with the 250 ohm model (as I haven't heard the 600 ohm model). FWIR the highs are better on the 600 ohm but it would have to be a HUGE difference to make them what I'd like. I can only listen to it for a 20 minutes before I have to take them off. I really want to love them as I enjoy a lot of their other attributes but the treble is mighty wicked.

The 990/250 just flat out sucks.  I don't think there's any other way around it.  All the other Beyer's I listened to could be described as, "Good, but not my cup of tea."  The 600 fixes most of the problems of the 250s, but the treble, while less peaky, is still too much for my ears.  My three line description of the 990/250s would be this.

Bass:  Sounds like someone attached a subwoofer voice coil to a very large piece of sheet metal and let it flap around in the open air.

Mids:  Covered under 6' of wet clay.

Highs:  Fingernails on a blackboard.

I sort of like the 770 250s and 600s, and the rest of them just didn't line up with my preferences, but I would be quite flabbergasted if there was anyone who actually liked the 990/250s.  It makes you wonder how such a product escaped from the factory in the first place.

Back on topic, I'm enjoying my D2000s so far.  I listened to them all day at work through my Bithead, and got to do a little listening on my Maverick D1, when I got home.  Overall I'm pleased. I think it sounded a bit more sparkly from my Maverick than my bithead.  Does the extra power bring out the highs or is it the Maverick itself?  I have some new opamps for it on the way in, so that may change it a bit.  So far I like it better out of my bithead, since its a bit darker than my Maverick, which is pretty much the reverse of what I was hoping.  Maybe opamps or burn in will change that.

why beyerdynamic whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy.

Why couldn't you just have your savy hi-tech engineers just BALANCE and straighten out the treble resonances. Why :( :( :( :(           

It's a shame tho, the DT990/600 would of been a terrific terrific headphone had it not been too treble oriented because i really loved everything else that it offered.

@ maverion: How does the bass from the D2000 compare with the DT990? give me the full 911, details detail. Soundstage, deep bass, comfort details details :D  And are you planning to return the beyers back to B&H?

Quote:

Originally Posted by HariBhushan 

why beyerdynamic whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy.

Why couldn't you just have your savy hi-tech engineers just BALANCE and straighten out the treble resonances. Why :( :( :( :(           

 

It's a shame tho, the DT990/600 would of been a terrific terrific headphone had it not been too treble oriented because i really loved everything else that it offered.

@ maverion: How does the bass from the D2000 compare with the DT990? give me the full 911, details detail. Soundstage, deep bass, comfort details details :D  And are you planning to return the beyers back to B&H?

My thoughts exactly.

I just did a quick A/B on a couple bass heavy tracks.  I'd say that the D2000s have the edge in quantity, but the 990/600s have a little better quality.  Its a bit deeper and tighter than the D2000s.  Actually, if the treble peaks didn't limit my listening level, I could probably turn it up more and get more bass than the D2000s.  These test weren't volume matched, and even if they were, what would sound reasonable on the D2000s would be ear piercing on the 990s, depending on what frequency you normalized them at.  I'd say the Beyers are a tad more comfy since the velour doesn't make your ears sweat as much as the leather on the D2000s.  It's a pretty minor difference though.  They are both very comfy.  I haven't really been paying attention to the soundstage yet.  Today was mostly a comfort and fatigue test that they passed with flying colors after listening for 8 hours straight at work.

I am most likely going to return the 990s, though I'm not going to make a final decision for a few more days on the off chance some extra burn in helps.

Quote:

Originally Posted by maverickronin 

I sort of like the 770 250s and 600s

Yeah, I heard that the 770/600s had slightly warmer treble than the DT880/600s.