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Power Cables... Really? - Page 5  

post #61 of 417

Come to the meets. One of the best ways to try things out.

post #62 of 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG POPPA View Post

Come to the meets. One of the best ways to try things out.


If this wasn't the science-free forum...

post #63 of 417

No no. I don't mean try it out. I mean the proof you said you had. Which I imagine means solid, empirical scientific proof. If not, choose another word/phrase. "Formed the opinion that" or something.

post #64 of 417


Man if you really need scientific proof for audio, you will not get very far with your journey?? Somethings really just need a little advice and auditioning to be put in the right direction. My opinions are based on real world applications of spending money, DIYing, auditioning, DIYing some more, spending more money until I get the sound right. If you are looking for scientific proof to spend money you will not enjoy this hobby that much. Make some cables with different types of connectors and go from there. That is the first step. You can do it on the cheap. Ask the retailer what all the different metals in the connectors do and go from there. retailers and manufactures can be really helpful pointing you in the right direction in good cables for your rig.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Head Injury View Post

No no. I don't mean try it out. I mean the proof you said you had. Which I imagine means solid, empirical scientific proof. If not, choose another word/phrase. "Formed the opinion that" or something.

post #65 of 417

This thread is about power cables, not cables in general.  If I worked retail and some sucker came up to me with $2k to spend on a power cable I would be ready with suggestions too.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG POPPA View Post


Man if you really need scientific proof for audio, you will not get very far with your journey?? Somethings really just need a little advice and auditioning to be put in the right direction. My opinions are based on real world applications of spending money, DIYing, auditioning, DIYing some more, spending more money until I get the sound right. If you are looking for scientific proof to spend money you will not enjoy this hobby that much. Make some cables with different types of connectors and go from there. That is the first step. You can do it on the cheap. Ask the retailer what all the different metals in the connectors do and go from there. retailers and manufactures can be really helpful pointing you in the right direction in good cables for your rig.


 

Edited by bridge8989 - 6/16/10 at 5:55pm
post #66 of 417

Be careful The guy who has 2K to spend on cables probably knows more about the cable he is looking for than you do. He is just looking for a good opinion to make sure he is right. I had a audio meeting with those type of guys last week as a guest. I make most of my own cables for my own personal use. Power, IC's, and Senn Cables. I prefer my own power cables at the moment. Power cables are pretty straight forward once you learn the metallurgy and the strenght and weakness's of the gear.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bridge8989 View Post

This thread is about power cables, not cables in general.  If I worked retail and some sucker came up to me with $2k to spend on a power cable I would be ready with suggestions too.
 


 
post #67 of 417

Those who scream loudest usually have the least to say.

post #68 of 417

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post #69 of 417

What changes could i expect if i upgraded my power cable. Does it clean up the sound? or does it actually change the sound?


Edited by Farnsworth - 6/16/10 at 6:44pm
post #70 of 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG POPPA View Post


Man if you really need scientific proof for audio, you will not get very far with your journey??


Because of course everyone knows faith has such an impressive track record of success.  All you need to do is take a quick listen to the Holy See's Stereo of Our Saviour to know The Truth.  You normally wouldn't expect such amazing sound from a 2000 year old wooden box, but if you just believe hard enough, you can hear the Choir of the Seraphim.

post #71 of 417

Audiophilia is a hobby, not a religious experience.  It is entirely possible to branch out into voodoo products, but it is also just as valid to learn about the science and engineering behind the gear, and work your way from there.  It is not blasphemous, nor does it dilute the validity or the enjoyment we get from headphones. 

 

I very much enjoy the science behind audio reproduction.  I also buy based on my tastes in sound - otherwise youd see a BHSE, and certainly not HE90's, in my setup.  I do not feel the two must be mutually exclusive.  At the same time, I have tried many IC and a few power cable swaps - none have ever made a difference to me.  But even if they did, I would certainly want to double check my findings with either 1) a dbt (please dont hate me for bringing it up here), or 2) some real demonstrated scientific data from a reputable source (aka someone who doesnt sell, and is not affiliated with salesmen of, audio products). 

 

There is certainly no pressure for you to heed any such evidence, and your own experience may very well prevail.  But stating that others are having an inferior "journey" is, quite frankly, pretentious and snarky. 
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG POPPA View Post


Man if you really need scientific proof for audio, you will not get very far with your journey??


 
post #72 of 417

In a practical sense using a scientific method would be very cumbersome to try several cables out efficiently. It would hinder trying to audition cables in an audio shop. I get some like to use a scientific method to understand. IMO it is a waste of time in the real world upgrading your rig. Spend money, listen to the power cable, if it sounds great GOOD. Keep the cable. If it sounds bad, return it and try it again. Simple as that.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Doug View Post

Audiophilia is a hobby, not a religious experience.  It is entirely possible to branch out into voodoo products, but it is also just as valid to learn about the science and engineering behind the gear, and work your way from there.  It is not blasphemous, nor does it dilute the validity or the enjoyment we get from headphones. 

 

I very much enjoy the science behind audio reproduction.  I also buy based on my tastes in sound - otherwise youd see a BHSE, and certainly not HE90's, in my setup.  I do not feel the two must be mutually exclusive.  At the same time, I have tried many IC and a few power cable swaps - none have ever made a difference to me.  But even if they did, I would certainly want to double check my findings with either 1) a dbt (please dont hate me for bringing it up here), or 2) some real demonstrated scientific data from a reputable source (aka someone who doesnt sell, and is not affiliated with salesmen of, audio products). 

 

There is certainly no pressure for you to heed any such evidence, and your own experience may very well prevail.  But stating that others are having an inferior "journey" is, quite frankly, pretentious and snarky. 
 


 
post #73 of 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farnsworth View Post

What changes could i expect if i upgraded my power cable. Does it clean up the sound? or does it actually change the sound?


IMO, expect objective changes in sounstaging - and at what frequency the staging changes at.  This in turn alters imaging and subjective frequency response.

post #74 of 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG POPPA View Post

In a practical sense using a scientific method would be very cumbersome to try several cables out efficiently. It would hinder trying to audition cables in an audio shop. I get some like to use a scientific method to understand. IMO it is a waste of time in the real world upgrading your rig. Spend money, listen to the power cable, if it sounds great GOOD. Keep the cable. If it sounds bad, return it and try it again. Simple as that.
 


 


Let us assume that blind cable tests are hard, but possible to pass, YET there is usually a consciously audible difference between cables as common as you hear mentioned on audiophile forums, it would follow that man gets in his own way when it comes to listening "critically" for whatever differences exist between cables while doing blind tests, but he is able to consciously discern a difference under more "ideal" circumstances. If this theory is true, it would actually facilitate one's conscious awareness of cable differences to practice blind tests, just like lab monkeys have to get over the fact that they are test subjects far from their natural environment.

post #75 of 417
Thread Starter 

I feel like this could be tested with some common equipment. All one needs is an oscilloscope and a means to capture wave points on a computer (an A/D or simply plug it into your sound card and use audacity, after proper attenuation of course). Unfortunately I don't have enough money to buy an o-scope nor do I have a means to capture the waveform on a computer, YET.

 

Take both a standard and an after market cord and hook it up to the o-scope, that way we can directly compare the waveforms.

Next get those waveforms into a computer and we can run a Fourier transform and look at both spectrum.

 

From what a professor told me, added harmonics in analog signals is what he considered to be the "warmth" people speak of. But, basically each spectrum and waveform should be different. That would be DEFINITIVE proof that a power cord COULD make a difference.

 

My next concern was how much this would pass through a converter, and unfortunately my power electronics class was only an intro course, so we didn't get into this.

 

DOES THAT SOUND LIKE A GOOD TEST?

 

EDIT: Considering it should be a DC output there should be NO HARMONICS. But we all no that no converter is perfect and things like this pass through, not to mention the added noise from the switching elements (if its solid state anyway, I don't know about tube converters)


Edited by Dookky - 6/17/10 at 6:37am
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