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Power Cables... Really? - Page 3  

post #31 of 417

 Every time I go wireless my equipment just goes blank. No blinky lights, tubes don't light up, nuttin'! Good S/N though.  
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by fhuang View Post

just go wireless

post #32 of 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rdr. Seraphim View Post

 Every time I go wireless my equipment just goes blank. No blinky lights, tubes don't light up, nuttin'! Good S/N though.  
 


 


your capacitor bank isn't large enough =)

 

and your s/n ratio would go down, not up..

post #33 of 417
Thread Starter 

Wouldn't it tend towards infinity?

post #34 of 417

Asymptotically!

post #35 of 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rdr. Seraphim View Post

 Every time I go wireless my equipment just goes blank. No blinky lights, tubes don't light up, nuttin'! Good S/N though.


SNR 0/0

 

UNDEFINED: DIVIDE BY 0 ERROR 

post #36 of 417

Now I'm dredging really, really old history from my memory banks, but isn't the limit of a derivative of 0/0 = 1?  E.g. sin(x)/x as x approaches 0? Or is it inderterminate? Ok, now I gotta get out, 'cause I'm really way over my head!  ('Scotty: Capt'n, I can't hold 'er together much longer!)

 

All I know is that when I go wireless, all I get is nuttin'! 

 

Y' all carry on... 

post #37 of 417

I thought S/N applies to the receiver end of the transmission.  Its one of the specs of receiver performance.  It depends on the receiver's components, good or bad. Like noisier preamp would decrease the ratio at the end where the signal is demodulated. 


Edited by High_Q - 6/14/10 at 3:41pm
post #38 of 417

 

 
 

I hate to add to the battle here since I'm undecided on this myself, don't understand enough about it to make a claim to either direction.  I'm curious if anyone has any links to tests or studies that show how this can have a difference though since the logic points so strongly against this. I'm not looking for a fight, I'd genuinely like to read it. I understand the idea of having the correct gauge wire with good connections. I also understand how a power conditioner or UPS can ensure clean power at the right voltage if you have issues with the power from the utility source. What I can't even begin to comprehend is how the "last few feet" of cable make a difference when everything going to the utility company is just aluminum. The logic in piecing together a good setup tells me that it's only as good as the weakest link, and in this case the weakest link is definitely not inside the house whether you use high quality cables or not.

 

 

Are you guys referring to power cables in general, going to everything? The only one I can maybe see making a difference is a decent cable from a power conditioner to the components, but not if the devices are plugged into a mid-priced surge protector.

 

As far as not knocking it till I've tried it, that will unfortunately have to wait. The rest of my setup isn't anything near where this is even a consideration.

post #39 of 417

 



Quote:
Originally Posted by aimlink View Post




Gotta fight fire with fire.  Extremism against extremism.  This is the sad part about it.

 

I say just make a good case for your cause, because if it is true you will prevail.  That author is a bitter physicist kicked out from his university, saying that modern medicine has not helped save lives.   I work in a medical school (and so recognize that I am not qualified to step into his field and make sweeping statements about the failures of physics in the last 50 years) and have three words for him: tissue plasminogen activator.  Strokes are the 3rd biggest cause of death in the U.S.- but a drug approved in 1996 that dissolves clots can completely stop the massive death of brain tissue.  And there are many many many more examples.  You would never deny yourself this treatment so I don't think you really mean what you say...

 

Why not hitch your wagon on sound reason and evidence instead?

 

^ More to the point of the thread, to answer the question above, there has been a recent thread that extensively discusses that issue.

post #40 of 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dookky View Post

Seriously though, why would you ever consider replacing your power cord with and aftermarket power cord. I can understand wanting to make one yourself, there's an enjoyment factor there, but buying an incredibly expensive power cord with silver contacts and diamond studded earrings just sounds CRAZY to me. From my understanding, there is no way your power is going to be any "cleaner" by having one of these cables. If you're power is dirty coming from your socket (which is highly likely) then a cable is worthless, invest in a AC/DC converter. Even if your fifty feet away from your socket that can't compare to the hundreds of feet of solid core copper in your walls, not to mention the cables going to your closest transformer. Am I missing something here?

 

Remember you're dealing with AC, so that "last 6 feet" is also the "first 6 ft" of cable too (an extension of your transformer leads).

That means a good quality aftermarket cord is shielded against and can drain off incoming EMI & RF, and it will also prevent radiating it out to other power cords and components in your system!

 

Want to try something fun?
Get one of these current/voltage detectors that you use to trace wires in your wall (maybe you already have one). Run it past your stock power cords and it will light up & buzz just like the wires in your wall will.

Now pass it along a nice aftermarket power cord, it will be silent. (it is on all the cords I own or have tried)

Noise reduction..... better sound follows

 

Story from a long time ago....

I had a friend over listening to music. I excused myself for a moment to swap power cords on the amp (didn't tell him I was testing anything, or "hey, check out the difference...")

After I fired things back up & played the same song again he said to me, "you know, I always thought you were full of s..t telling me power cords made a difference, but the soundstage just went from [..here..] to [.......here.......] when you changed cords."

 

Personally I feel it's easier to hear things like this in a speaker based system, but it also has merit in a headphone system.
 

post #41 of 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd R View Post

Noise reduction..... better sound follows


Source? After all, it's converted to DC by the amp before it drives the headphones.

 

Your story is still flawed if he saw you changing the cables, whether you told him it was a "test" or not. The very fact that you changed cables for him after making it clear in the past that you believe in a difference hinted that you expected him to hear a difference, too. So placebo or poor audio memory could have easily taken over and convinced him of an improvement.

post #42 of 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by Head Injury View Post


Source? After all, it's converted to DC by the amp before it drives the headphones.

 

Your story is still flawed if he saw you changing the cables, whether you told him it was a "test" or not. The very fact that you changed cables for him after making it clear in the past that you believe in a difference hinted that you expected him to hear a difference, too. So placebo or poor audio memory could have easily taken over and convinced him of an improvement.

 

He could have also just as easily said the sound got worse too, now couldn't he? He had no idea what the cables were, only that I changed them.


Sigh...

Just try it.


Edited by Todd R - 6/14/10 at 9:12pm
post #43 of 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd R View Post

Remember you're dealing with AC, so that "last 6 feet" is also the "first 6 ft" of cable too (an extension of your transformer leads).

That means a good quality aftermarket cord is shielded against and can drain off incoming EMI & RF, and it will also prevent radiating it out to other power cords and components in your system!

 

You mention EMI & RF noise.  So, you are worried about noise picked up on cable that transmits AC power?  You know it gets regulated later on right?  I would be more concerned about getting the best rectrifying circuit.  And remember boys and girls, engineers actually think about noise when they are designing stuff.  What part of the circuit does noise have most effect?  Notice, I didn't say cable?
 


Edited by High_Q - 6/14/10 at 9:20pm
post #44 of 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd R View Post



 

Remember you're dealing with AC, so that "last 6 feet" is also the "first 6 ft" of cable too (an extension of your transformer leads).

That means a good quality aftermarket cord is shielded against and can drain off incoming EMI & RF, and it will also prevent radiating it out to other power cords and components in your system!

 

Want to try something fun?
Get one of these current/voltage detectors that you use to trace wires in your wall (maybe you already have one). Run it past your stock power cords and it will light up & buzz just like the wires in your wall will.

Now pass it along a nice aftermarket power cord, it will be silent. (it is on all the cords I own or have tried)

Noise reduction..... better sound follows

 

Story from a long time ago....

I had a friend over listening to music. I excused myself for a moment to swap power cords on the amp (didn't tell him I was testing anything, or "hey, check out the difference...")

After I fired things back up & played the same song again he said to me, "you know, I always thought you were full of s..t telling me power cords made a difference, but the soundstage just went from [..here..] to [.......here.......] when you changed cords."

 

Personally I feel it's easier to hear things like this in a speaker based system, but it also has merit in a headphone system.
 

 

Good basic test Todd! 

 

I use aftermarket Power Cords on all my music equipment, currently from Harmonic Technology (AC-10), but due to a recent upgrade on the source side of things was considering something from Kaplan (maybe the entry H.E.). I've always noticed dramatic changes in my "bigger" rig via my (then) Merlin TSM-MXe's (noticed Bobby's stuff on your site and couldn't help myself ).

 

Dookky, rather than finding out what everyone else's opinion is on the matter (because everyone has one), search out a a local dealer who's willing to do a "try before you buy" program and give it a whirl. Nice thing on the AC power cord side of things is that the effect is immediate, and you really don't need to let things "burn in" like IC's or speaker cables. 

 

 

 

post #45 of 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by High_Q View Post



You mention EMI & RF.  So, you are worried about noise picked up on cable that transmits AC power?  You know it gets regulated later on right?
 


Worried? Well can be an issue. Regulation can be really elaborate or really simple, depends on the design. I've built several amps so I know you can take it to whatever level you feel is necessary.

 

I'm not going to get sucked into one of these endless debates with you guys who refuse to even try something because they KNOW it can't work.

I'm just posting my experiences and hoping someday one of you is curious enough to just give it a try and see for yourself. 

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