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HiFiMAN 602: Talk about your initial impressions and specs - Page 3

post #31 of 1195

^ I would have to agree with you on that point. And the point made before. Up until now I've always had access to a power outlet so using the T51; battery life was never an issue with me. Going to college in a couple of months, I'm sure I'm going to spend a lot of time outside of my room out and about. 

 

but yea having a swappable battery would be great. 

post #32 of 1195

I am OK with 4 hours of battery life.

 

Though swappable batteries, ability to use alkalines or ability to play & charge from 3rd party optional external batteries is appreciated. I had power tank, which were capable to produce any DC voltage from 3 to 19 V, feeding notebooks or USB devices. It was sized like VHS video cassette, much bigger than any portable audio device I had. Nevertheless, I was OK to use it while traveling.


Edited by kostalex - 6/12/10 at 9:26pm
post #33 of 1195

Edwood, you have mentioned the ability to swap batteries on the HM-801. Would you please direct me to the instructions on how to do so, just want to learn how to do so. Thanks.

post #34 of 1195

Hold it in your hands upside down with the LCD facing up.  Push the bottom door down (by placing your thumbs on the front of the battery door which says "HifiMan" on it).  It should slide down.  You'll see a gap.  Than pull up on the battery door.  Should pop right off.  On the bottom, there is a small tab on the battery where you can pull it out.  Flipping it upside down and gently tapping should have it fall out as well.

 

Then sit back and admire how large the battery is.

 

-Ed

post #35 of 1195
Quote:
Originally Posted by feverfive View Post

Man, I wish soem of these DAPs would support ALAC....yeah, I know...

I'm pretty sure that ALAC is a proprietary file extension (Apple Lossless) and no one is allowed to legally use it, but Apple.

 

Flac it is. Good to here that Head-Direct came out with a unit that has a larger demographic (less mula) and hopefully the

software will be user-friendly and glitch free. If so, I am so on the purchase list.

 

I think the main point here, is that Head-Direct has vision, no longer wants to be just a distributor (Fang and his wife hold high

degrees) and is constantly introducing new products. They are not stagnant. Good for them.

post #36 of 1195

The first gen iPhone got over 30 hours of play time - I would know as I had one and it would pretty much last me the entire week on one charge (5-6 hrs a day listening, plus light texting and web surfing.)  The 4th generation that is about to come out is rated at 40 hours playback according to Apple.  My Blackberry, on the other hand, gets terrible battery life when used as an mp3 player.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kubus View Post

Well, I really dont mind :)

Im listening to music 1-3 hours per a day, not more. So its no problem to put the charger in when Im sleeping.

3-5 hours of listening time for a player is enought and I think most of us doesnt listen more :)

And btw iPhone when used as a phone and as a source for amp or as a player doesnt live much longer, so why nobody minds about that?

 

 


 

post #37 of 1195

I couldn't find anything that say's it's illegal to decode ALAC http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Lossless

 

If a player supported ALAC and playlists then it would make it so much easier for people tied in to iTunes/ iPod

 

So if you've already got a 801, why would you get a 602?
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by immtbiker View Post



I'm pretty sure that ALAC is a proprietary file extension (Apple Lossless) and no one is allowed to legally use it, but Apple.

 

Flac it is. Good to here that Head-Direct came out with a unit that has a larger demographic (less mula) and hopefully the

software will be user-friendly and glitch free. If so, I am so on the purchase list.

 

post #38 of 1195
Quote:
Originally Posted by immtbiker View Post



I'm pretty sure that ALAC is a proprietary file extension (Apple Lossless) and no one is allowed to legally use it, but Apple.

 

Flac it is. Good to here that Head-Direct came out with a unit that has a larger demographic (less mula) and hopefully the software will be user-friendly and glitch free. If so, I am so on the purchase list.

 

I think the main point here, is that Head-Direct has vision, no longer wants to be just a distributor (Fang and his wife hold high

degrees) and is constantly introducing new products. They are not stagnant. Good for them.


Meaning no offense, but I don't think the larger demographic was ever the target of this thing. There are too many deficits for it to ever expand beyond a niche market. Namely:

 

1) 4 hours of battery life

2) It's big and ugly

3) Not enough internal memory

4) 4 hours of battery life

 

For the audiophile on a budget (ahh, what has headfi done to us) it should hopefully have (but I'm doubtful):

 

1) A good equalizer, at least as good as rockbox (very doubtful)

2) Gapless playback

3) Glitch free firmware, if the clip can do it so can this thing (doubtful)

4) No hiss with sensitive IEMs (harder, but if the clip can do it so can this thing)

post #39 of 1195
Quote:
Originally Posted by JxK View Post


Meaning no offense, but I don't think the larger demographic was ever the target of this thing. There are too many deficits for it to ever expand beyond a niche market. Namely:

 

1) 4 hours of battery life

 

Where did you get this from? I get 7 to 8 hours on my 801, expecting the 602 to be better

 

2) It's big and ugly

 

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, looks ok to me

 

3) Not enough internal memory

 

SD Cards

 

4) 4 hours of battery life

 

See 1

 

For the audiophile on a budget (ahh, what has headfi done to us) it should hopefully have (but I'm doubtful):

 

1) A good equalizer, at least as good as rockbox (very doubtful)

 

Many people don't use equalizers

 

2) Gapless playback

 

Agreed. Essential. They are working on this

 

3) Glitch free firmware, if the clip can do it so can this thing (doubtful)

 

The firmware for the 801 is now mostly glitch free and they're constantly working on it

 

4) No hiss with sensitive IEMs (harder, but if the clip can do it so can this thing)

 

Which iems are we talking about? No hiss with 801/JH13

 


 


Edited by ade_hall - 6/16/10 at 11:17pm
post #40 of 1195

"Many people don't use equalizers"

But lots of us do. I still think that for the price the option should be there, to say nothing of the 801. (personally, I think that for anyone over 40 an equalizer becomes a necessity)

 

"The firmware for the 801 is now mostly glitch free and they're constantly working on it"

And it's statements like that which make me so wary and doubtful of the product. If I, the consumer, am going to buy an $800 DAP - the most expensive available on the market- I should expect perfect firmware. It should be a non-issue. That it wasn't when it first came out, and apparently still isn't (even if it's close now), is utterly inexcusable. It is unprofessional, and frankly disrespectful to the consumer.

 

But more importantly, it makes me wonder. Why does a company purportedly committed to excellence and quality release a faulty product? And moreover, if they can overlook something as obvious as poor UI, what else are they willing to overlook? My 02. cents.

 

post #41 of 1195


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JxK View Post

"Many people don't use equalizers"

But lots of us do. I still think that for the price the option should be there, to say nothing of the 801. (personally, I think that for anyone over 40 an equalizer becomes a necessity)

 

I find more often than not, the need for an equalizer is an attempt to compensate for the shortcoming of the frequency response in a specific headphone.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JxK View Post

 

"The firmware for the 801 is now mostly glitch free and they're constantly working on it"

And it's statements like that which make me so wary and doubtful of the product. If I, the consumer, am going to buy an $800 DAP - the most expensive available on the market- I should expect perfect firmware. It should be a non-issue. That it wasn't when it first came out, and apparently still isn't (even if it's close now), is utterly inexcusable. It is unprofessional, and frankly disrespectful to the consumer.

 

But more importantly, it makes me wonder. Why does a company purportedly committed to excellence and quality release a faulty product? And moreover, if they can overlook something as obvious as poor UI, what else are they willing to overlook? My 02. cents.

 

Faulty product?  Really?  Have you ever used an HM-801 extensively?  I found it very usable from Day One, and I preordered one of the very first ones with the early firmware.  Was it perfect?  Of course not, gapless playback is probably the most glaring fault now.  But to call it poor and useless is unfounded.  Even the much revered Sansa Clip+'s firmware is far from perfect.  (folder browsing anyone?).  And to point to Rockbox as the solution is laughable, as it's not 100% stable yet, and is a 3rd party solution.  No manufacturer supports it as default, it's a hack that you have to do yourself, and other people have to write the firmware themselves.  No one's stepped up and started hacking and compiling their own firmware for the HM-801 yet.   Would it be great to have Rockbox alternative to stock HifiMan firmware?  Of course, but there are only people complaining about the firmware and not anyone actually doing anything about it.

 

The HM-602 addresses the many complaints that people had about the HM-801.  Size, weight, cost, and button arrangement.  In turn it also inherits many of the advantages from the HM-801, like superior audio quality.  But of course, it compromises there a bit, as it's not quite as excellent in the SQ department as the HM-801, IMO (at least with my first listen at CanJam).

 

When gapless playback is finally added to the firmware, I'm considering the firmware final.  Any other additions will be extra tweaks that will be appreciated.  But yes, gapless needs to be fixed.

 

If you value slick and fancy UI over sound quality, just make a trip to the Apple store.  Maybe this product is not for you.

 

-Ed

 


 


Edited by Edwood - 6/18/10 at 4:13pm
post #42 of 1195
Quote:
Originally Posted by ade_hall View Post

So if you've already got a 801, why would you get a 602?
 

 

I don't know if it's true yet or not, but the HM-602 might actually have a better USB DAC (straight to I2S rather than through PCM2706 SPDIF) implementation than the HM-802.  So for those that want to use it as a USB DAC at the computer most of the time, and then be able to take it on the go for more portable use than the HM-801 even, it would be a great idea.

 

I'll probably end up with an HM-602 as my back up player.  It'll be cheap enough compared to the very expensive HM-801.  Although I have special plans for my HM-801 . . .

 

-Ed

post #43 of 1195
Quote:
Originally Posted by JxK View Post




Meaning no offense, but I don't think the larger demographic was ever the target of this thing. There are too many deficits for it to ever expand beyond a niche market. Namely:


4) No hiss with sensitive IEMs (harder, but if the clip can do it so can this thing)


No offense, but you need to read up more, or have some first hand experience.  The HM-602 was an early prototype, the hissing is an issue they will fix before release.  The HM-801 was extremely quiet, almost a small amount of hissing at max volume levels with music off.  At those level with my Westone ES3X, it would instantly cause permanent hearing damage.   Also keep in mind that the gain level of the HM-801 is much much higher than the Clip+, meaning the HM-801 goes to a much higher volume level. 

 

-Ed

post #44 of 1195

I'm with Edwood on this one. I'd much rather see a focus on components than looks and firmware.
All I need the firmware to do is play the music, the rest is just a bonus.

 

I'd be more concerned about a player with a near percent UI, if that's the main focus of a DAP I can only shake my head.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edwood View Post
<snip>

If you value slick and fancy UI over sound quality, just make a trip to the Apple store.  Maybe this product is not for you.

 

-Ed

post #45 of 1195

but iPod's hardly have 'fancy' UI's. They are very simple, but are well integrated. I consider the UI very important, especially if that UI/firmware combination brings things such as: gapless, good lossless support, good file handling (no artefacts). I think the emphasis on 'components' misses a few things. Components are important, but the firmware driving them can make great components sound horrible. The software is responsible for feeding the DAC and decoders and ultimately, stands before any componentry. If those aren't done well you will get AMP3 hiss, sony A840 series artefacts (clicking) and skips. 

 

If the HM601 can do very good playback do away with unnecessary GUI shyte (S:Flo), it will be good. if it can do those things with no artefacts and very little hiss plus gapless, it will be amazing. I'll believe it when I see/hear it.

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