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A tale of 2 IEM's (Montser Turbine Copper 1 vs Monster Turbine Copper 2) How different burnin... - Page 8

post #106 of 178
Thread Starter 

^^ X2 if you want a warmer sound start with the brown centric file first then switch out to the other file second, if you want more neutral try starting with white pink centric file first then switch to brown. The jury is still out if it will actually shape the sound of the IEM or not but thats the theory.

post #107 of 178



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dweaver View Post

very interesting, the cool thing with these files is it's easy to combine them and make up your own unique burnin file. I would want a slight bit more brown strewn throughout the process but I could see how this would make for a nice balanced sound. I like the addition of the heavy drums but would likely increase the use of that 50 second file and while I hate the sound of the frequency sweep those short blasts are probably fine (just make sure your not going to loud).

 

To me this is kinda the fun part of a new dynamic based IEM as it lets me try things I hadn't thought of before.

 

Excellent work and imagination JoeyRusso.


OUCH!!  Please tell me you didn't listen to that file for any length of time.. I strongly discourage anyone from listening to any of these files for an extended time, especially if you're burning them in at higher levels..
 

 

Thanks.. it was fun experimenting, but it's all about the listening now

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShyFroggy View Post

what, in theory, do you think might happen if you first used the brown noise file for a night, then switched to the pink/white file the next, and so on?

 

Also, do all vocals pretty much fit into the "midrange"?  A female soprano, for example, or a boy treble.  


Well based only on my own experience and what I've read of dweaver's experience, I'd venture to guess that you'd end up with what he had, a more mids - bass pronounced version.  I think the first 20+ hours may have the most influence, but even that's debatable. I don't think we'll ever have conclusive evidence one way or another, at least until dweaver wins the lottery and hires me to work in his test lab... LOL
 

I think most vocals fall into the midrange.. but some singers have awesome range and can't hit quite high as well as low..

post #108 of 178
Thread Starter 

LOL that darn frequency sweep, I don't have to wear the IEM, I can have it in a box in a cabinet and still hear it and don't get me started with my cats and dog

post #109 of 178



LOL, I know what you mean, I could hear it clear across the living room, even with my headphones on playing Xbox!!

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dweaver View Post

LOL that darn frequency sweep, I don't have to wear the IEM, I can have it in a box in a cabinet and still hear it and don't get me started with my cats and dog



 

post #110 of 178

Quick question: when I drag the brown flac file into vlc player, the name changes to "burninallnoisesamples".  Is that right?  I haven't heard any silence yet.

 

 

EDIT: my bad.  just looked again at what the file should contain.  Now it's just figuring out how loud to play it; there is the volume of my computer and the volume of the player...


Edited by ShyFroggy - 8/4/10 at 1:25pm
post #111 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShyFroggy View Post

Quick question: when I drag the brown flac file into vlc player, the name changes to "burninallnoisesamples".  Is that right?  I haven't heard any silence yet.

 

 

EDIT: my bad.  just looked again at what the file should contain.  Now it's just figuring out how loud to play it; there is the volume of my computer and the volume of the player...


Not too loud!  Don't damage the drivers!  I personally ramp up low to average listening levels over time.  But I don't try to shape the sound so...

 

Just dont go past 70-80% of what you would consider highest listening volume to be safe IMO.

post #112 of 178
Thread Starter 

I suggest never louder than a little louder than the loudest your comfortable listening at. To do this I play some music and set the volume to just a bit more than what I find comfortable, then I switch to my burnin files.


Edited by dweaver - 8/4/10 at 2:20pm
post #113 of 178

^^thanks

post #114 of 178
Thread Starter 
Ok my new MTPC arrived but I unfortunately could set up the recording system to test DB levels like I wanted. But I did have a listen and found the mids recessed a bit like my last pair and first pair. For this pair I built a new burnin file based off my white pink centric file with several 3 minute cymbal sessions and 1 minute heavy drumming sessions. After 5hrs of burnin I had a listen and was not seeing much change in the mids. So I switched to my brown noise centric burnin file and left the IEM's to burn for about 10hrs and the midrange was much less recessed and full sounding so I let them cook another 4-5 hours. I then set my system up to alternate between my new burnin file and the brown file with the brown set to run twice to compensate for the near two hour length of the new burnin file and then left for 2.5 days on vacation. For this burnin I also increased the volume from 10% to 15% in my computer. The sound tonight was less lower mid centered than my last pair but still midcentric as compared to my first pair.



Again, nothing here can be really proven but I do believe these IEM's are extremely malleable out of the box and they definitely can be made to sound different depending on the burnin. I am very happy with my latest burnin process as it seems to have addressed my issues with my first two pair.
Edited by dweaver - 8/23/10 at 10:48pm
post #115 of 178

Gratz man.  You need a lab.

post #116 of 178
Thread Starter 

I also was noticing with the new pair the same echo sound in the IEM using the standard single flange tip. But after my success with creating a tip using earplug foamies from the drug store (see this thread ) for my SM3 I was eager to try this with the Copper's. Initially I was trying to use the cores from some complies and these were a dismal failure. But I decided to see if I could get the tip to go on the IEM nozzle by itself and this worked very well. All I can say is this tip mod is the best sounding and comfortable tip I have every tried! It eliminates all insertion depth issues for me, I get zero vacuum type seals, and I get forget anything is in my ears fit everytime. PLUS THE ECHO IS GONE! This is huge for me as it was one of the aspects I was disliking badly about the Copper. So I now have a tip solution that costs me $10 for 24 tips (earplugs and that only if I buy at retail brick and mortar drugstores  vs off the internet. Cheap, comfortable and great sounding, what more can anyone ask for.

 

Here are some pics of the finished tip, note that the one side is bigger than the other as I have not mastered my craft yet :-). You simply cut the tip end to the length you want (about 3/8" or there about), bore a hole through the foam from the top down to the cut with a sharp round object (I start with a small philips screw driver) and then use a slightly larger object to enlarge and stretch the hole. Then use your fingers to stretch the hole onto the IEM nozzle and use the nozzle bezzled shaped to help get the foam on. I then pull the foam back until it drops into the notch on the nozzle. The tip will be initially flattened and deformed but will expand back out and fill up the tip like my pictures. If the tip is to long it will start to close over the nozzle screen as can be seen in my own picture, if it's to much take the tip off and trim it. Also make sure you have the cut section at the bottom on the nozzle with the uncut part at the top. From there as all foam tips just roll in your fingers to compress and then use the MTPC recommened way of inserting by pulling the ear lobe as you insert. The tip will then expand and block out sound after about 10 seconds. I believe these tips will last 2 weeks to a month depending ona persons ear wax volume. Note these are shallow insertion tips and while fairly good at isolation are not extremely isolating.

 

photo1.jpgphoto.jpg


Edited by dweaver - 8/23/10 at 11:52pm
post #117 of 178
Thread Starter 



Thanks Anaxilus, I wish I could afford one or get access to one some day...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaxilus View Post

Gratz man.  You need a lab.

post #118 of 178

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeyRusso View Post

Ok after further review of my Foobar playlist.. It seems I went even more extreme than I originally thought.  The files I used, aside from dweaver's Brown file, were all found on http://www.burninwave.com/.  Since the file lengths were so short, I added multiples of each in the following order:

 

P-W-FS-P-W-P-W-FS-P-P-W-FS-P-W-P-W-FS-P-W-HD-W-Brown file-W-FS-P-RW-Silence file-W

 

P = Pink noise (1 minute file)

W = White noise (1 minute file)

FS = Frequency Sweep 20-20k Hz - (30 second file)

HD = Heavy drum (50 second file)

Brown file = dweaver's B-P-B-W-B flac (1 hour file)

RW = Radio White noise (1 minute file)

Silence file - (1 hour of silence)

 

I set Foobar to replay the playlist and let it run for 8 hours overnight.  In the morning I unplugged my Copper's and let them rest while I was at work.  I repeated the whole process the following night. I noticed the biggest change between the initial listen and after the first night of burn in.  The changes from there on out were on a smaller scale.  After about 10 hours of listening and two nights of burn-in I've done nothing but listen and enjoy.  Your mileage may vary, but I love how my MTPC's sound.

 

Joey


A couple of questions to who ever has the knowledge to answer.

 

1 - I'm sorry if I missed it, but where can I find dweaver's brown file?

 

2 - What is the purpose of the "silence file" as well as "giving them a rest"?

 

3 - Is it recommended that I immediately start my burn in with these sorts of files? Probably most similar to JoeyRusso's list above.

 

4 - After the headphone is offically "burned in" is it possible to shape the sound any more through different sound files?

 

I'm sorry I have so many quesitons, I just find this really quite interesting. And I really want my Pro Gold's to sound the best.

 

(Thanks to dweaver for putting me in the right thread)

post #119 of 178
Thread Starter 

My signature has links to the burnin files. The silence is designed to give the IEM's a rest for when you do an aggressive burnin (start turning the volume up) to ensure they have a break to ensure they don't get damaged. I would burn in your pair after a short listen so you have an idea of the initial sound to compare against as you burn them in. If you want to try this method it really is important you do it shortly after getting the IEM as they do start to be less malleable with use (at least that is how the copper's have been). Also pay attention to volume levels. I start with a volume that is just above what I find comfortable to listen to (10% on my computer) and then increase it a bit after about 10hrs of burnin (to 15%) and a bit more at about maybe later on (I maxed my increases to 18% on my computer).

 

I think JoeyRusso's mix will give you a nice balanced sound without over emphasizing any one area. If you want to mix is up a bit further get some cymbals sounds and either mix them in to the heavy drumming or just have them play by themselves like the heavy drumming to help stress the treble and upper midrange a bit more so they develop fully. Also be carefull with the full frequency sweeps as they are one of the potentially more damaging sound files if used to aggressively. If you find your wanting more midbass after about 5 hrs of burnin, I would suggest doing 5hrs of just my brown burnin file and then have another listen then adjust or continue from there.

 

After around 2-3 days of burnin you can then switch to using your music at slightly louder than comfortable levels over night when your not using your IEM to finalize the burnin. They pretty much stop changing at around 100hrs.

post #120 of 178
Thread Starter 


The post below made by mvw2 in the Multi-IEM review thread by |Joker|
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mvw2 View Post

It would be hard to compare.  There are many assumptions associated with the experiments.  For one, you assume all the sets sounded very close to each other in the start.  Driver variation could very well have one set sounding a little different than another.  I really have no clue where Monster gets their drivers and if the company tests their samples for consistency.  Second, there is the assumption that all burn in methods completely burnt in the earphones.  Maybe one method simply doesn't do as much as another.  While one may sound different than another after the burn in it may turn out that all equal out through normal listening later.  Third, we has humans have terrible memory of sounds.  What we thought we heard and what we hear now are two different things.  Both our perception of sound and our memory of sound vary with time.  Human hearing is an adaptive, auto-tuning system, so it gets incredibly hard to perceive the same way twice.  A form of "pallet cleanser" can help though.  I find pink noise to both be a good tool for EQing but also resetting the mental perception of sound.  When you spend an hour or so listening to static through several headphones, it tends to wash away any skew you may have had.  There are a few product I've had for a very long time, and I've used them in the mix as I try out new hardware.  It is interesting to experience changes in perception with time.

 

I think the only good test is to literally buy a bunch of earphones, run all of them immediately and write down how each sound overall and in relation to each other.  If all of them sound the same or at least close enough to not casually be aware of which earphone you have in your ears at any given time, you can step into the burn in.  It would be helpful to do listening evaluation blindly with random testing of the bunch.  I would also wait a while and randomly test again once or twice more and just write down everything.  If it is in the head, we will describe one earphone different every time we hear it.  If it is from the burn-in, we should be able to describe the same earphone the same way every time no matter what order we listen to them.in a blind test.  Repetition of the test weeds out random chance and actually shows a pattern.  At the end of the burn in process they should sound different if the method is important.  I would also suggest after this point to swap the burn in process for each and run them through again.  They should get more alike if they all share the same process.  There might be a control earphone on the side of all of this testing that measures just normal musical use and time.  If they all equal out over time, it would just be a use issue.  It may just be that one burn in method is just quicker getting to the end result. 


mvw2, I agree with your assessment about needing a whole bunch of IEM's to truly test my theory which non of us can afford to do. So there will be no way to fully prove out my teory unless I win the lottery :-).

 

Having said that I have read enough reviews and discussed the Copper's with many users on the forum and there does appear to be a couple of recurring trends in regards to what users are hearing to see there are a couple of different distinct sounds emerging amongst the readers. This coupled with my 3 distinct sounds I have had in my pairs makes it seem possible that the burnin process may be causing these variations. As for different processes causing the IEM to burnin faster, I have had 1 user who's review described my first pair of Copper's to a tee plus myself try to use my burnin files on their fully burnt in units and the files had no effect on those IEM's sound for either of us. So I do think the initial burnin process and what the IEM's are subjected to does make a difference. This is also noticeable in my latest Copper vs my 2nd pair. My 2nd pair was burned in exclusively with my brown based burnin file for the first 40-50hrs and they started to have a very distinct sound within the first 5-10hrs that just became more entrenched. Whereas I used a new burnin file that was based on my pink and white noise centric file with added heavy drumming and cymbals crashes for the first 5 or so hours with my 3rd pair and wasn't happy with the midbass/lowermidrange so I switched to my brown centric file for the next 10hrs or so and the midrange started to come out like the 2nd pair. I was concerned that I didn't over accent that area like I felt the 2nd pair had done though so I then switched the burnin to be equal parts my brown burnin file and my new burnin file and left them to play for the next 2.5 days and the result an IEM that was pretty much right between the 1st and 2nd pair.
 

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