Fiio E7 or Cmoy bass boost v2.02

I would also like to know.

Cmoy.  The E7 is said to be pretty much worthless unless you use the DAC input only.

Illmatic is a great album.

Quote:

Originally Posted by roker 

Illmatic is a great album.

Indeed...  I will skip the E7 for now though. I would be a waste of money at the moment. 
 

For the same price, you can get better amps like the Ibasso T3, the Mini 3, etc. The cmoy and E7 will soon have you wanting to get a better amp. Buy the best you can buy and stick with it for a while. Or buy the cheapest (Fiio E5) so you can get a taste of what's to come when you upgrade.

How is a T3 the same price as the Cmoy 2.02?  The Cmoy is $65, the T3 is double.  I haven't heard the new Cmoy but it looks rather impressive for the price.  I have the E5 and M50's, its an ok pairing if you don't push the M50's much.  The E5 will distort eventually and muddy up the sound.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anaxilus 

Cmoy.  The E7 is said to be pretty much worthless unless you use the DAC input only.

I don't know why this viewpoint is perpetuated in this forum but it is simply not true.  There has been quite a few threads discussing this with a lot of good information in them. 

Jack

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anaxilus 

How is a T3 the same price as the Cmoy 2.02?  The Cmoy is $65, the T3 is double.  I haven't heard the new Cmoy but it looks rather impressive for the price.  I have the E5 and M50's, its an ok pairing if you don't push the M50's much.  The E5 will distort eventually and muddy up the sound.

Sorry, I only meant the Fiio. The cmoy maybe good, if you would want to save up and get this amp, go for it. I'd go for the Ibasso though, personally. If you search stuff up, maybe you can find good information between the cmoy and the T3 and whether it is worth it to spend a little more for the $100+ amps. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack-Micca 

I don't know why this viewpoint is perpetuated in this forum but it is simply not true.  There has been quite a few threads discussing this with a lot of good information in them. 

 

Jack

Where do you think I read that the HO on the E7 is negligible?  Granted I haven't used the E7 but from posters I am familiar with and various threads there are numerous claims that the HO on the E7 offers little if any amplification whereas the DAC side works well.  I can only report what I have read, if someone wants to provide links to the OP to the contrary feel free.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anaxilus 

Where do you think I read that the HO on the E7 is negligible?  Granted I haven't used the E7 but from posters I am familiar with and various threads there are numerous claims that the HO on the E7 offers little if any amplification whereas the DAC side works well.  I can only report what I have read, if someone wants to provide links to the OP to the contrary feel free.

That was pretty much my experience with the E7.  I don't use a DAC because I don't listen off computer that much -- but I did try it and it is loud and powerful (possibly because the computer output is already pretty loud?).  

But as far as an amp it just didn't have enough power, IMO.  The volume control goes from 0 to 60.  Until you reach 50, the volume was lower than my source, whether Zune30 or Fuze.  That gave me 51-60 to get a bit more volume to drive my RE0, and it just wasn't enough power to warrant having it.  The bass boost was negligible on setting 1, OK on setting 2, and the treble was cut on setting 3 (same as bass boost on the E5).  I returned it after one week.
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anaxilus 

Where do you think I read that the HO on the E7 is negligible?  Granted I haven't used the E7 but from posters I am familiar with and various threads there are numerous claims that the HO on the E7 offers little if any amplification whereas the DAC side works well.  I can only report what I have read, if someone wants to provide links to the OP to the contrary feel free

Well, these same threads you referred to also indicated that using the line out or LOD from a audio source provides plenty of volume. So it's not just the DAC that works well in the E7 as you've claimed here.  Even in cases where the user is limited to using the headphone output from a source, the source volume can be set sufficiently high to ensure a good signal quality and the E7 can then be used to provide superior power amplification to the headphones.

The only case where the E7 is not a good match, is when a user is trying to get more volume out of a source and the only thing he has access to is a weak headphone output. I am not making light of this situation, but this is quite a narrowly defined group that doesn't represent the majority of portable headphone amp users willing to spend $100 just on an amplifier.

Jack

I wanted to illustrate the above points with an actual example of how the E7 can help improve the sound from a player's headphone output:

Take the Cowon D2 player's output - suppose you have a 16ohm headphone, here's the performance you can expect:

http://rmaa.elektrokrishna.com/Single_Players/Cowon%20D2%20-%2016%20Ohm%20Load.htm

I am unsure of the E7's input impedance, but suffice to say it is higher than 600ohms. Presenting the D2 with a 600ohm load gives you the following performance:

http://rmaa.elektrokrishna.com/Single_Players/Cowon%20D2%20-%20600%20Ohm%20Load.htm

You get a significant boost in signal quality across the measurements in terms of frequency response, noise, distortion, crosstalk, and IMD. Just to be thorough, here's the D2's performance into "no load:

http://rmaa.elektrokrishna.com/Comparisons_%28No_Loads%29/Cowon%20D2-O2%20-%20No%20Loads.htm

The above graph actually shows two poings: 1) there is again more raw performance from the D2's headphone output at no load versus 600ohm load, the E7 's input impedance is closer to no load rather than 600Ohm, if its input is standard 10k Ohms. 2) the graphs show the expected increase in performance across the board as the D2's volume is increased, most significantly an increase of 12dB in signal to noise ratio! This is what I was referring to when I wrote in my previous post that "the source volume can be set sufficiently high to ensure a good signal quality".

I couldn't find a RMAA plot for a production E7 quickly, so here's one based on a pre-production sample:

http://rmaa.elektrokrishna.com/Various/FiiO%20E7%20%28Aux%20vs.%20USB,%20Vol.%2060,%20No%20Bass%20Levels,%20Var.%20Loads%29.htm

As can be seen, the E7 is not nearly as sensitive to load changes as the D2, thus giving you far superior signal to a 16ohm headphone versus directly from the D2's headphone jack.  Using the E7 following the D2's headphone output gives substantial improvements in sound quality, even though the ultimate volume may only be up to 4dB louder. I believe this is the true fundamental benefit of a separate headphone amp: superior quality amplification, not just more amplification.

Jack

Narrowly defined group eh.  There seems to be a sizable number or threads and posts to the contrary.  I've seen quite a few than say their $20 E5 performs better than the E7 and have reverted back.  I'm willing to bet real money the $65 Cmoy v2.02 kills the $100 E7 whether using the headphone out, line out or whatever non DAC related out you can conceive of.  I really don't understand what your point is.  From your own words it sounds like the Cmoy is better than the E7 and cheaper to boot.  So why would the OP want an E7 if they aren't going to use the DAC?

I went for the ibassoT3 myself, getting the E7 seemed like a step down.