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post #16 of 502

@OP - Its OK you can't figure out the difference between the  DACs. My colleagues prefer Apple Ibuds to my $139 IEMs so you are not alone. But on the other hand just because you cant make it out does not mean that no one else can !

 

I do not have golden ears like so many here yet I got 8/10 when I did a blind Foobar ABX test between a 320 kbps Mp3 file and a FLAC file some time back.

 

The mp3 file was derived from the FLAC file and encoded using LAME (320 kbps CBR).

So if someone like me can make out the difference I am sure that there are many other people who can as well. (Also in a very strange co-incidence it seems we both like to listen to Roxette !!! )

 

Here were the test results -

 

foo_abx v1.2 report
foobar2000 v0.8.3
2010/03/24 22:57:21

File A: file://F:\Roxette convert\Joyride.mp3
File B: file://F:\utorrent downloads\Roxette\1995 - Don't Bore Us - Get To The Chorus!\Roxette - don't bore us - get to the chorus!.cue

22:57:30 : Test started.
23:00:13 : 00/01  100.0%
23:03:07 : 01/02  75.0%
23:05:40 : 02/03  50.0%
23:07:19 : 03/04  31.3%
23:08:04 : 04/05  18.8%
23:09:47 : 04/06  34.4%
23:10:24 : 05/07  22.7%
23:11:38 : 06/08  14.5%
23:12:15 : 07/09  9.0%
23:14:33 : 08/10  5.5%
23:26:41 : Test finished.

 ----------
Total: 8/10 (5.5%)

post #17 of 502


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by brendon View Post

@OP - Its OK you can't figure out the difference between the  DACs. My colleagues prefer Apple Ibuds to my $139 IEMs so you are not alone. But on the other hand just because you cant make it out does not mean that no one else can !

 

I do not have golden ears like so many here yet I got 8/10 when I did a blind Foobar ABX test between a 320 kbps Mp3 file and a FLAC file some time back.

 

The mp3 file was derived from the FLAC file and encoded using LAME (320 kbps CBR).

So if someone like me can make out the difference I am sure that there are many other people who can as well. (Also in a very strange co-incidence it seems we both like to listen to Roxette !!! )

 

Here were the test results -

 

foo_abx v1.2 report
foobar2000 v0.8.3
2010/03/24 22:57:21

File A: file://F:\Roxette convert\Joyride.mp3
File B: file://F:\utorrent downloads\Roxette\1995 - Don't Bore Us - Get To The Chorus!\Roxette - don't bore us - get to the chorus!.cue

22:57:30 : Test started.
23:00:13 : 00/01  100.0%
23:03:07 : 01/02  75.0%
23:05:40 : 02/03  50.0%
23:07:19 : 03/04  31.3%
23:08:04 : 04/05  18.8%
23:09:47 : 04/06  34.4%
23:10:24 : 05/07  22.7%
23:11:38 : 06/08  14.5%
23:12:15 : 07/09  9.0%
23:14:33 : 08/10  5.5%
23:26:41 : Test finished.

 ----------
Total: 8/10 (5.5%)


This would be a questionably designed test IMO. 

 

The MP3 and the FLAC should be made from the same master disc, ripped on the same computer, etc.

 

Getting a FLAC from one guy and an MP3 from another, or ripping the MP3 from the FLAC would be flaws IMO.  There are a  tonof other things to consider, but those are a few.

post #18 of 502

Yeah I agree. It's also been reported that some of the torrent flacs are files originally converted from mp3s.

post #19 of 502
Thread Starter 

I don't deny there are differences in all these things.   I just think the differences are very small.

 

I found myself being a hi-fi snob over the past year (refusing to buy off amazon with 256kbps mp3s, telling people how mp3s were garbage), and now I am realizing how much of exaggeration the whole hi-fi industry is.  I saw a test of 128 mp3 vs 320 and the results showed that slightly more people said the 128 kbps mp3 sounded better than the 320.  And it was a 50 50 shot of getting it right from the start.  What does that tell you?

 

I congratulate many headphone manufactures for making phenomenal products, but there is alot of stuff out there you don't get much from.


Edited by Crazy*Carl - 6/5/10 at 11:00am
post #20 of 502

In my experiences that has been the case as well. Not so much with amps but with dacs. I've heard a difference in just about every amp I've ever listened to but with dacs, that's another issue. A lot of dac fanatics will always use the quote "garbage in garbage out" which is true. But what if it's not garbage in like in a 200.00 dac where the signal is pretty good. There are alot of dacs in that price range that sounds pretty good and you would have to spend around 1000.00 to get a significant upgrade. I've listened to a lot of dacs from 200-600.00 that it was very hard to perceive a difference(although there was a subtle differnce). So IMO to get a significant upgrade  in a source(provided you have a decent one to begin with), you would need to spend triple digits. And even then the improvement might not be great. Case in point, is the benchmark. It sounded better than most midfi sources that I heard(some might consider it midfi as well), but still the improvement wasn't great. Now on the other hand, I've heard great improvements going from a 200.00 amp to a 400.00 amp. To me, it was like night and day, But everyone's ears are different so is their perception of sound.

post #21 of 502



I'm sorry the only thing that Carl's test proves is that he's uninformed as to what constitutes a good recording because he thinks that Roxette's "the Look" is a "good recording". I own this recording, it's a catchy pop tune with mediocre sound quality, so much so that I find it un-listenable on any of my better systems. Get in the car and crank it up, sure, but using it as a song for serious evaluation of equipment is like trying to read braille with oven mitts on.

 

Not to mention that this entire thread belongs in the Sound Science Forum.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy*Carl View Post

Roxette - The Look

The Lord of the Dance - Siamsa

 

Both are good recordings.

 

As for the 320 vs lossless, they sound the same to me.

post #22 of 502
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by happyxix View Post

So really all this foulcry of biased DBT are just audiophiles defending their investment of thousand dollar equipment when I'm sure most people can't tell the difference if tested.

 

 

AMEN BROTHER!

post #23 of 502



I didn't say that you shouldn't listen to poorly recorded music, just that it shouldn't be used when seriously evaluating equipment. Would you use a VHS tape recording of a 330i broadcast TV program made in the early 80's to evaluate the performance of a State of the Art 1080P HD Plasma, LCD, or Projector of course not. That doesn't mean that you can't watch and enjoy those crappy old recordings, just that you're not really going to be able to see what the new high resolution technology is really doing.

 

Yes Head-Fi has many Audiophiles here, if you don't like it why don't you find somewhere else to troll.

 

It does however seem that we agree on one point; I too dislike the new Head-Fi format.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy*Carl View Post


Now I am supposed to stop listening to music I like because the recording supposedly inst that good to begin with.

 

Pull the headphones out of your %$.  Head-fi is a bunch of audiophools.  There is truth in all of it, but its so exaggerated its ridiculous here.  And this new head-fi is a total failure of a interface.

post #24 of 502

8 trials is hardly sufficient. I can criticize many other flaws in the method used but there's no point, people should be allowed to believe what they want and never cajoled into seeing another perspective, but they should refrain from claiming others are lying or exaggerating. I'm sorry you lost money trying out audiophile equipment, but your opinion is no more and no less than any of ours, just say your piece, allow others to read what you have to say and decide for themselves, no need to insult others.

post #25 of 502

1 person

8 test runs

mp3 sourced

all gear looks to be less than $200-300

 

On another front I test drove a ford focus, nissan sentra, honda civic and a mazda 3. Since they are all similar and get me from point A to B; ferrari, porsche and lamborghini are not any different.

 

Thats essentially what you are saying here. You didn't listen to any high end audio equipment but at the same time saying that its "fake".

 

I started with an ad700, then citypulse dac+shanling ph100+akg k701 , then buffalo dac/lavry  da11+firstwatt f1+akg k1000. There is a big difference using the K701 and k1000 with a good amp compared to running it off my soundcard output. There was also an easily heard difference between the citypulse and the lavry/buffalo dacs. The price difference was also 800-1300 between them. I'm not saying go spend a ton of money, you should try going to a meet and listen to a variety of things for free or just try to find good deals in the for sale forum to audition better stuff.


Edited by Pyriel0 - 6/5/10 at 2:15pm
post #26 of 502


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy*Carl View Post

I don't deny there are differences in all these things.   I just think the differences are very small.

 

I found myself being a hi-fi snob over the past year (refusing to buy off amazon with 256kbps mp3s, telling people how mp3s were garbage), and now I am realizing how much of exaggeration the whole hi-fi industry is.  I saw a test of 128 mp3 vs 320 and the results showed that slightly more people said the 128 kbps mp3 sounded better than the 320.  And it was a 50 50 shot of getting it right from the start.  What does that tell you?

 

I congratulate many headphone manufactures for making phenomenal products, but there is alot of stuff out there you don't get much from.

 

 

Does sound like you wandered into the wrong Forum fir sure!
 

post #27 of 502
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by les_garten View Post


 

 

 

Does sound like you wandered into the wrong Forum fir sure!
 


I know, and its taken me 9 months to realize it!

post #28 of 502
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyriel0 View PostI'm not saying go spend a ton of money, you should try going to a meet and listen to a variety of things for free or just try to find good deals in the for sale forum to audition better stuff.


I will go to a meet if I see one here,  But I am done with this silliness for now.

 

I think when I go to the meet, i will get a big fancy box with an ipod inside it and see how many people I can fool, I mean impress.

post #29 of 502
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyriel0 View Post

1 person

8 test runs

mp3 sourced

all gear looks to be less than $200-300

 

On another front I test drove a ford focus, nissan sentra, honda civic and a mazda 3. Since they are all similar and get me from point A to B; ferrari, porsche and lamborghini are not any different.

 

Thats essentially what you are saying here. You didn't listen to any high end audio equipment but at the same time saying that its "fake".

 

I started with an ad700, then citypulse dac+shanling ph100+akg k701 , then buffalo dac/lavry  da11+firstwatt f1+akg k1000. There is a big difference using the K701 and k1000 with a good amp compared to running it off my soundcard output. There was also an easily heard difference between the citypulse and the lavry/buffalo dacs. The price difference was also 800-1300 between them. I'm not saying go spend a ton of money, you should try going to a meet and listen to a variety of things for free or just try to find good deals in the for sale forum to audition better stuff.


I hate when everyone compared everything with car analogies.

 

A car is a mechanical system. Audio isn't. They cannot be compared period.

 

While I'm at it why don't I get a better HDMI cable. Maybe a Monster one. Its probably costs $100 but I want that Ferrari and not the Toyota Corolla right?

 

See how stupid car references are.

post #30 of 502
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy*Carl View Post

 

If this thread gets deleted, that would be sad.  It would really tell you alot about head-fi.  I even tried to make it extremely clear that I was only hear to reveal what I heard. But due to the nature of me going against what this forum is about, I only expect to get hammered.

 

You do realize you will ruin your hearing if you listen that loud for years?

 

I never had had a problem with volume or clipping with HD580 with any source or music.

 

And say what you want about the test, its still true that I was basically unable to distinguish the two.  If you can't do that, then why pay alot of money for it?


All it tells me is the OP can't tell the difference more than 50% of the time...that's it.

 

Peete.

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