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Amp recommendations for Audeze LCD-2 - Page 498

post #7456 of 7959
I do like the NFB-28, which is incredible for the price, and the  Mjolnir/Concero. With that being said, I don't know if I would go with them just because they only goes down to 20hz. I'd like to get a setup that goes down lower but I am finding the price jumps up the lower you go. I know I can't exactly hear much at 5hz but I sure can feel it. I saw a couple setups that go down that low but they are expensive. I am thinking that is the trend or am I wrong?
post #7457 of 7959

Now there's new Lyr 2.  More neutral I heard.  Might be even better match with LCD-2

post #7458 of 7959
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirininc View Post


20 HZ ????? That is not correct
post #7459 of 7959
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildcatsare1 View Post


20 HZ ????? That is not correct

I am only going off what they list on the sites. They might be able to go down lower but they don't list it?

post #7460 of 7959
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirininc View Post

I am only going off what they list on the sites. They might be able to go down lower but they don't list it?

The Lyr 2 is listed at 20 HZ - 20 KHZ + or - 0.1 DB, which means it is flat in the audible spectrum, it provides power/current across to your HP, with virtually no change to the signal across the audio spectrum, you are misunderstanding this value.
post #7461 of 7959
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildcatsare1 View Post


The Lyr 2 is listed at 20 HZ - 20 KHZ + or - 0.1 DB, which means it is flat in the audible spectrum, it provides power/current across to your HP, with virtually no change to the signal across the audio spectrum, you are misunderstanding this value.

Ohm I wasn't talking about Lyr 2. I don't want to use a tube amp though. Sorry for the confusion.

post #7462 of 7959
Wildcats' observation is correct in general though, not just for Lyr2. Manufacturers (when they state a range at all) do so with a given dB tolerance like Wildcats mentioned. It doesn't mean there isn't usable energy outside the range. IIRC my power amp is 0.5 dB down at 5Hz, for example...
post #7463 of 7959

Dropping by to attest to the wonderful synergy with the Audio-gd Precision 1 headphone/speaker amp in high gain mode.  

 

From another thread:

"If I had to sum it up in one word, the LCD 2 + Precision 1s combo = natural.  It's a balanced, neutral and superbly well articulated sound - liquid without losing clarity.  The bass is full and textural.  The mids and vocals are present without being in your face about it.  The treble is precise and never harsh.  There's a here-ness to the presentation, the music envelopes and engages you and keeps you in suspension of belief because everything is really real."  

post #7464 of 7959
Love how my lcd 2 sounds with pan am and passport, compare to my SS amp the music is more alive
post #7465 of 7959
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirininc View Post
 

I am only going off what they list on the sites. They might be able to go down lower but they don't list it?


The reason everything is specd 20 to 20 is because that is the standard.  CD players generally go a lot lower, and nearly all amps.  The 20 hz standard is to allow for techniques to block out DC.  This is normally accomplished in the first 2 hertz.  Look at a spectrum analyser and you will find a significant proportion of most recordings from many genres indicate activity well below 20 hz all the time.  Whether your transducer can create this or whether you can hear this is debatable.

post #7466 of 7959
Quote:
Originally Posted by SP Wild View Post
 


The reason everything is specd 20 to 20 is because that is the standard.  CD players generally go a lot lower, and nearly all amps.  The 20 hz standard is to allow for techniques to block out DC.  This is normally accomplished in the first 2 hertz.  Look at a spectrum analyser and you will find a significant proportion of most recordings from many genres indicate activity well below 20 hz all the time.  Whether your transducer can create this or whether you can hear this is debatable.

That is good to know thanks for the information. I am using the O2 right now and it doesn't list a sub 20hz on the specs page but I can still hear 10hz. I am using http://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php to hear the different levels. Granted I don't know how much + or - I am getting at that level but I can still hear it. 

 

On another note, I chose the b22. I'll have my hands full on reading and picking out parts in the next couple months but it sounds like fun.

post #7467 of 7959
Quote:
Originally Posted by SP Wild View Post
The reason everything is specd 20 to 20 is because that is the standard.

That's correct, though this standard is an approximation chosen for round numbers. Actual human hearing range is shifted slightly lower. Most people can hear below 20 Hz though very few can hear 20 kHz or higher. That said, many of the audible differences between headphones and amps are well within the audible spectrum. Differenting A from B is more about the brain than the ears. Your ears are already picking up some of the differences, but your brain is ignoring them so you don't "hear" them. Listener training makes a big difference.

post #7468 of 7959

Long-time LCD-2 owner here (version 1).  7500 posts into this thread and I'm going back to page 1 from Skylab.  Just picked up a used Leben CS300.  All I have to say is: Oh sweet lord, the music!

 

I've played the LCD-2 through a bunch of headphone amps, including a balanced Cavalli EHHA (strong tight sound, very precise) and recently from the headphone out on my Benchmark-2 Dac (very clinical, a touch fatiguing).  The temptation with the LCD-2 is to want to analyze the music.

 

Now listening to the Benchmark feeding the Leben and with great performances all I hear is music. All the detail is there, but instead of hearing how separate and distinct all the instruments are, I hear how they all fit together and how great the musical phrasing is.

 

A few highlights:

 

Skip, Hop, and Wobble (by Jerry Douglas, Russ Barenberg, & Edgar Meyer) - one of my all-time favorite recordings by 3 of the greatest studio musicians out there.  Gorgeous, tasty phrasing all day. You can see the three of them sitting there jamming

 

Let It Bleed (Rolling Stones) - layers and layers of sound. The groove is completely infectious

 

Live at Ronnie Scott's (Jeff Beck) - wow. Sitting in the front row for this incredible ensemble performance

 

A Love Supreme (John Coltrane) - always loved this performance, but holy crap! Pushed play on this and didn't notice anything else for the next 35 minutes

 

The First Time (Roberta Flack) - one of the best written songs ever. Put the LCD-2's on my wife to listen to this and she just closed her eyes and smiled for the whole song

 

 

 

So, thanks Skylab. Short of some tube rolling, I'm not going to touch a thing with this setup.  Just sit and listen to great music.  Who needs sleep anyway.

post #7469 of 7959
Quote:
Originally Posted by stringgz301 View Post
 

Long-time LCD-2 owner here (version 1).  7500 posts into this thread and I'm going back to page 1 from Skylab.  Just picked up a used Leben CS300.  All I have to say is: Oh sweet lord, the music!

 

I've played the LCD-2 through a bunch of headphone amps, including a balanced Cavalli EHHA (strong tight sound, very precise) and recently from the headphone out on my Benchmark-2 Dac (very clinical, a touch fatiguing).  The temptation with the LCD-2 is to want to analyze the music.

 

Now listening to the Benchmark feeding the Leben and with great performances all I hear is music. All the detail is there, but instead of hearing how separate and distinct all the instruments are, I hear how they all fit together and how great the musical phrasing is.

 

A few highlights:

 

Skip, Hop, and Wobble (by Jerry Douglas, Russ Barenberg, & Edgar Meyer) - one of my all-time favorite recordings by 3 of the greatest studio musicians out there.  Gorgeous, tasty phrasing all day. You can see the three of them sitting there jamming

 

Let It Bleed (Rolling Stones) - layers and layers of sound. The groove is completely infectious

 

Live at Ronnie Scott's (Jeff Beck) - wow. Sitting in the front row for this incredible ensemble performance

 

A Love Supreme (John Coltrane) - always loved this performance, but holy crap! Pushed play on this and didn't notice anything else for the next 35 minutes

 

The First Time (Roberta Flack) - one of the best written songs ever. Put the LCD-2's on my wife to listen to this and she just closed her eyes and smiled for the whole song

 

 

 

So, thanks Skylab. Short of some tube rolling, I'm not going to touch a thing with this setup.  Just sit and listen to great music.  Who needs sleep anyway.


Thanks for the excellent review and recommendation! I have always read nothing but great things about the Leben amps. I am still backing my horse the Sophia Electric Baby. It outperforms everything I have compared it to. It puts  me in the same space as your Leben for exactly the same reason. Of course it requires a voltage divider network on the output as the 10watts is too much straight out for my Audeze LCD2.

post #7470 of 7959
Quote:
Originally Posted by MRC001 View Post
 

I'm using a 1999 Headroom Maxed out Home to drive LCD-2 rev 2 phones. Audeze recommends 1 watt but I think that is more than than most people need because Audeze's assumptions are conservatively high. The LCD-2 is amazingly efficient for an Ortho, actually play slightly louder at the same voltage than the HD-600s. They're easy to drive and don't need much power, you want a super clean low distortion amp but it doesn't need a ton of power.

 

Audeze suggests your music has 60 dB of dynamic range. Sure you can invent sounds that have 60 dB or more of dynamic range but the only music I know of with 60 dB of dynamic range is something like the Carmina Burana or the 1812 Overture with cannons being fired. In this case if you listen with the quiet parts at 90 dB SPL the loud parts will make your ears bleed and possibly explode your head.

 

After saying that, Audeze provides a more realistic example: listen at 90 dB with 30 dB of dynamic range.

Power in dB is 10*log(ratio), here it's equal to 30 dB, so we have ratio = 1,000.

30 dB louder requires 1,000 times the power so that's 1 milliwatt to 1 Watt.

 

But listening with the quiet parts at 90 dB SPL is super freaking loud. Most people who listen that loud are listening to rock which has a lot less dynamic range (more like 12 dB instead of 30). So let's get realistic: suppose we listen with the quiet parts at 67 dB SPL and there's 30 dB of dynamic range.

Peaks will be 97 dB SPL.

The LCD-2 needs 1 mW for 90 dB, so for 97 dB it needs: 10 * log(x) = 7 --> x = 5. That's 5 mW of power. Five milliwatts. That's nothing!

Now if you really crank it up, suppose you listen with the quiet parts at 80 dB SPL, so peaks are 110 dB SPL. That's ear bleeding loud, but hey...

That's 20 dB louder than the reference 90 dB @ 1 mW, so we have:

10 * log(x) = 20 --> x = 100

So we need 100x more power, which is 100 milliwatts.

Still nowhere near 1 Watt of power. Any decent solid state headphone amp will put this out nicely, and most tube amps should too.

 

Of course the amp could run out of current and clip, so how much current would it need?

The LCD-2 has an impedance of about 50 ohms.

Power is current squared * impedance, so 0.1 W = i^2 * 50 --> i = 0.044. That's 44 milliAmps. Any decent solid state headphone amp should be able to do this no problem. Even most tube amps should.

 

Anyone feel free to check my math, but I can say the LCD-2 sounds absolutely freaking great with my Headroom Maxed out Home. It's a beefy little amp with super smooth yet detailed sound, ruler flat response with negligable distortion, perfect for high quality recordings of acoustic music. Those OPA627s are mighty smooth and clean and the little toroidal power supply shows nary a ripple on the DC. I'm not sure where it maxes out in power, but I've bench tested it to about 250 mW and 180 mA of current, at which it has no sign of clipping, all harmonics in spectrum at -85 dB or lower. That's way louder than I will ever need.


I'm glad this post exists on here, because for so long I've seen people say things like "that amp running a max of 1 watt is only the bare minimum for your LCD 2s" yet every now and then I would see a post of someone using them with an amp that maxes out less than 1 watt and they love the sound, even compared to more powerful amps. Even on the Audeze forum post that has these power suggestions, theres a guy running them with an amp that outputs about 500 mW into 50 ohms and he loves the sound. So thank you for showing all the proper math behind why this is true. I thought of the analogy of like driving on the highway: one car with 200 horsepower is driving at 65 mph, and then next to it is a supercar with 700 horsepower also driving at 65 mph. if 65 mph is the same as maximum normal listening volume, then you see how whether you have 200 horsepower of 700 horsepower, you still easily achieve the same level of volume and dynamics. granted the lesser powered car will be using a bit more effort to maintain 65 mph, whilst the higher power car will be borderline idling in first or second gear. But in musical and amps terms, you would never really notice the difference. What you would notice is how good the ride is, and as long as your car can at least make it to 120 mph, then how good the ride is, is the only real difference and important factor.

Also I'd like to note that I play drums, and for anyone else here whose ever played or stood next to someone who was playing, without ear protection, you will know exactly what 105-120dB actually sounds like. Because I feel a lot of people on here might not have a clear picture of how painfully loud that really is. Its a volume level that after 20 minutes of sound, you will literally be partially deaf for a good hour or two after. A loud cymbal will physically make your ear hurt as you feel the sound waves vibrating the inside of your ear (high pitched frequencies I should add). So yea, if you think you listen to music on the loud side and need an amp that can go close to 110 dB (excluding dynamic peaks) then you might want to rethink the dB number that you're actually listening to lol.

On another quick side note/question, I tried plugging in my LCD 2's into my laptops 3.5mm jack just for curiosities sake (since that jack can drive my Denon d5000 pretty well) and in turn it sounded horrible, I mean not in qudio quality, but like it literally was too quiet to actually listen to it to any normal level at maxed out volume. I should mention to get the Denon's even at normal listening volume I have to max it out lol. So I was wondering if it only takes 1mW to get 90dB out of the LCD 2, and like 116dB for the Denons (I think, close to ti at least), then how ridiculously low of an output power does my laptop's 3.5mm jack have lol? According to the math it has to be less than 1mW lol, which is super low.

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