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Amp recommendations for Audeze LCD-2 - Page 30

post #436 of 7692

Lets use some real world, not spec sheet results shall we....

 

LCD-2

90dB @ 119mV, 2.43mA, 49ohm, .29mW

 

Senn 800

90dB @ 248mV, .69mA, 360ohm, .17mW

 

Technically the LCD-2 will use nearly 2x the power that a Senn 800 does dB for dB but neither is terribly power hungry for a home amp.

post #437 of 7692
Back on topic - and by way of segue - one amp that certainly has all the power you could ever need for the LCD-2, and still my favorite by far with them, is the Leben CS300X. Every time I go back to this combination I am reminded of justbhow much better it is than other combos. I can enjoy the LCD-2 with other amps, but with the Leben, there is some very serious synergy. The pair has to be an all-time top-tier combo.
post #438 of 7692

The other critical issue IMHO is the power transfer at different frequencies.  Very few amps stay totally flat with inductive loads across the frequency spectrum.  The worst offenders are SE (single-ended) which can deliver a lot more oomph at some frequencies than others, usually getting flabby in the bass. On paper, their frequency spectrum looks great, but the results when listening reveal important frequency response interactions with different cans.  Or another example, 'stats where the impedence decreases with frequency, the power delivery can be quite different at high frequencies than at low frequencies.  I'm not talking just the ability to deliver frequencies, but the ability to deliver them with equal emphasis. 

 

I guess this is one reason why bench testing by reading specs can be so misleading about the actual sound.  When the amp has to really slog into its power supply to deliver the goods, that's when you discover the real players versus the also-rans.  My old electronics teacher used to explain that an amplifier was just a way to modulate the power supply, so the design of the power supply is at least as important as the amp topology, and choice of active devices.

 

Back on Topic:

Anyway, thanks to everyone who has contributed to this topic!  I'm on the list for the LCD-2's also, so I'm interested in hearing owners who can share their amp/can experiences. 

 

Between now and when my name is called, I'm trying to decide whether the LCD-2's are just FOTM, or whether there's a better choice.  Also whether my current amp will be a good fit.  For us tube guys, putting transformers in the delivery chain can improve the linearity of the power delivery, so I'm modestly optimistic that the Audez'e will work with my amp.  If not, all these experiences are really relevant for thinking about the ideal HPA topology for the Audez'e LCD-2's. 

 

At the moment, I'm auditioning stuff.  I'm fairly happy with a pair of loaner T1's using my own Mapletree Audio Ear+ HD Super, with the high-output impedence jack. Trying to decide whether to keep the T1's or wait for the Audez'e.  It's a lot of money, but at least I can re-sell if it doesn't work out.  Fortunately, the output of my MAD amp is pretty robust into the low impedence jack, so it won't be a power issue, but may very well be a power transfer/delivery issue.  Glad to hear at least one person say they liked some things about the earlier MAD Ear+ HD amp with the LCD-2's.

 

post #439 of 7692

I try to always have at least one other "something" to compare to my new "something".  Otherwise I'm comparing whats in hand with memory.  In my case the LCD-2 will be going head to head with the Senn 800, HE-5LE and the O2.  Be no hiding for the cans that can't hang with the others ;)  And just to be sure amps aren't an issue I have the Meier Concerto and Nugget B22.  Man my desk is going to be an eye sore :p

post #440 of 7692

So far (and from memory) it betters the MSPro I used to have - which had some mid-bass bloat and vocal recession.  The bass is big but far better defined and controlled with the LCD-2. Guitars sound awesome. James Hetfield's voice (in Enter Sandman) jumps out at you with a lifelike clarity and realism that reminded me (and perhaps betters)  the SR200/HP1000 I used to own. Then there is the soundstage which rivals the HD800.

 

BUT it takes a bit of getting used to and synergistic amping. When I first heard the LCD-2 I was dissapointed. Now I can't stop listening and this is through a cheap DIY amp.

Quote:
Originally Posted by volume View Post

What about the bass on the LCD2,could it replace headphones like the RS1i's for rock.

post #441 of 7692
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solude View Post
 Man my desk is going to be an eye sore :p


You mean it will be eye candy :)  Looking forward to your comparisons.

post #442 of 7692
Quote:
Originally Posted by SP Wild View Post
  Both my full tube amps do no justice to the LCD2 whatsoever.


How does your xcan v3 and xpsu sound with them.  I have the same combo, the xcan is a hybrid.  I thought it sounded warm and nice but not as fast as the V200 and the midrange didn't seem as pure, maybe the xcan focused on the bass and treble ends more or something.  Problem was that I wasn't really doing a full listen with it and it was a while back.  So what are your feeling with that combo?

post #443 of 7692

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solude View Post
Lets use some real world, not spec sheet results shall we....

LCD-2

90dB @ 119mV, 2.43mA, 49ohm, .29mW

Senn 800

90dB @ 248mV, .69mA, 360ohm, .17mW

Technically the LCD-2 will use nearly 2x the power that a Senn 800 does dB for dB but neither is terribly power hungry for a home amp.

 

Thanks, Solude. Your specs could go part of the way to explain the differences Headfiers are experiencing with the LCD-2s. Talking of specs, I know that Class 'A' amps usually have a sound output that belies their (often) modest specs, much like the 'big' sound you get from from a 5+5 Watt tube amp. As you can guess, I'm thinking of the Class A Luxman P-1u. What's you take on this?


Quote:

Originally Posted by Skylab View Post
Back on topic - and by way of segue - one amp that certainly has all the power you could ever need for the LCD-2, and still my favorite by far with them, is the Leben CS300X. Every time I go back to this combination I am reminded of justbhow much better it is than other combos. I can enjoy the LCD-2 with other amps, but with the Leben, there is some very serious synergy. The pair has to be an all-time top-tier combo.

 

The Leben CS300X does come up a lot! It's a tempting option, especially when you consider you also have a good little amp for 'normal' speakers as part the deal. And, the Leben designer was a long-time employee at Luxman. However, I wonder if the Leben suffers in some way from valve amp distortion and flabby bass? If so, that would put me off. How does it perform with fast and/or bass heavy rock and electronic music, for example? Your thoughts, SKYLAB?

We have come such a long way with solid state (speed, lack of distortion, quietness and tight, extended bass) that the Leben would have to be one hell of an amp to sway me away from considering a Luxman P-1u or Violectric as my top (off-the-rack) amp choices for the LCD-2s.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeadEars View Post
The other critical issue IMHO is the power transfer at different frequencies.  Very few amps stay totally flat with inductive loads across the frequency spectrum. (edit)

 

I guess this is one reason why bench testing by reading specs can be so misleading about the actual sound.  When the amp has to really slog into its power supply to deliver the goods, that's when you discover the real players versus the also-rans. (edit)

 

 For us tube guys, putting transformers in the delivery chain can improve the linearity of the power delivery, so I'm modestly optimistic that the Audez'e will work with my amp.  (edit)

 

Power transfer at different frequencies is a real problem. How do we know which amps will perform across the frequency spectrum? It's a crap shoot.

The power supply issue is what draws me to the Luxman. The company started out building transformers (a big part of the power supply pie) and the company's amplifiers had (have) plenty of grunt.

As far as putting transformers in the audio signal path (which I think you are talking about), I thought that was a bit of no-no these days. For example, a transformer used in the signal path to amplify the output of a moving coil cartridge to get it to the level accepted by a moving magnet phono input will lead to veiling, limiting of dynamics and other colourations. I would think that the use of a transformer in the signal path of a headphone amp should also be avoided for the same reasons.


Edited by gogogasgas - 8/11/10 at 12:19am
post #444 of 7692
Quote:
Originally Posted by dallan View Post




How does your xcan v3 and xpsu sound with them.  I have the same combo, the xcan is a hybrid.  I thought it sounded warm and nice but not as fast as the V200 and the midrange didn't seem as pure, maybe the xcan focused on the bass and treble ends more or something.  Problem was that I wasn't really doing a full listen with it and it was a while back.  So what are your feeling with that combo?


The XcanV3 is a forward of neutral amp with less treble and bass extension than pure SS and with gently softened transients - midrange is nice, thanks to tubes.  I was about to sell it - never used it for years - but with the LCD2 it redeemed itself.  Instead of eliminating them, they now deserve the Pink Floyd mods.  With the BCL the LCD2 is eerily on the verge of reality sounding on a pristine recording - most of my recordings aren't so pristine and this combo hides nothing...this is where the Xcans fall in line with its tube magic and solid state grip.

post #445 of 7692

Maybe I shouldn't have gotten the V200 after all then........  But glad to hear it works, i rarely use the xcan/xpsu v3 anymore, maybe it will get some more use.

post #446 of 7692
Quote:
Originally Posted by dallan View Post

Maybe I shouldn't have gotten the V200 after all then........  But glad to hear it works, i rarely use the xcan/xpsu v3 anymore, maybe it will get some more use.


No! I looked into all the amps before getting the LCD2s and the V200 was high on my radar if the BCL didn't drive them enough.  Its good to hear the LCD2 with pure SS and a pristine recording - and it's also good to introduce some euphonics into the deadly accurate LCD2s with poorer recordings - which while still good with LCD2 and SS, can be more enjoyable with the errors smoothed over.

 

The LCD2 softened by the Xcan is still by far tighter than the HD650/K701 driven to their maximum driver agility threshold.  I wasn't expecting this.

post #447 of 7692

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SP WildView Post




Cayin HA-1A, and MingDa MC84 - both are OT designs, both are able to drive speakers, the Cayin 2 watts into 8ohm and the MD 5 watts into 8ohms.  There is more than sufficient power and current drive to power the 50ohm LCD2s.  Both amps were my chosen amps for HD650 and K701 - but with the LCD2s - it relegated them into a mid-tier can with a massive soundstage - but mid-tier in terms of speed, slows and bottleneck the LCD-2, frequency extremes are significantly let down.


What tubes are you using in the Ming Da? 

post #448 of 7692

Quote:

Originally Posted by dallan View Post
Maybe I shouldn't have gotten the V200 after all then........  But glad to hear it works, i rarely use the xcan/xpsu v3 anymore, maybe it will get some more use.


I don't think you will be disappointed. Looking forward to hearing your opinion on the LCD-2/V200 combo!

post #449 of 7692
Quote:
Originally Posted by tunarat View Post

 


What tubes are you using in the Ming Da? 


Yeah, I need to roll some tubes with MingDa I believe - the stock tubes I think are the cause of a gradual channel imbalance drift.  I wasn't under the impression that tube rolling can improve pratt significantly - tonal balance, smoothness and refinement maybe, but I've yet to hear of someone tube rolling and reporting dramatic changes in pratt - which would be needed in order for the LCD2s to come good with either MD or Cayin amp...I never had this problem with mid-tier cans, both were brilliant.    

post #450 of 7692

Cool, now if that list would just move a bit faster.........

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