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HD600 cable upgrade - worth it? - Page 2

post #16 of 223


I found that the Cardas upgrade cable made a very big difference to my listening experience.

 

I got a pair of HD800's a couple of months ago which is an upgrade to my HD650's.  I ordered the upgrade for the 800 right away because I remember the sonic difference it made to me when I got my 650.  So when I started listening to my new 800 with the stock cord, they sounded almost exactly like my 650 with the Cardas cord; and it was the upgrade cable that made the difference.  When my Cardas 800 upgrade cable arrived, it moved the 800 up a very big notch.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by sp70 View Post

I've heard so many varying opinions. I'm stuck with the basic flimsy HD600 cable and wanted to know if those $200+ cables out there really make that big of a difference? I have a modest setup, but i'd hate for this thin cable to be my bottleneck.

 

Would the (cheap!) upgrade to the HD650 cable bring any improvement? Or am I best saving for something like the Stefan Equinox or the Cardas cable?

 

These are all rather pricey for someone on a limited budget as I so I suppose what i'm saying is would I be wasting my money for a minute upgrade or is this the real deal? I've read quite a few reviews of the various upgrade cables and it either seems like they "sounded the same, I returned them" or it was "night and day difference, worth twice the price I payed!"

 

How do you think i'm best off spending my money in this matter? Should I upgrade to the HD650 cable for ~$16, not upgrade at all, or save my cash for one of the more pricey options mentioned above?

 

post #17 of 223

Don't waste your money on replacing your single ended cable.   If you want to hear some real improvement, get a balanced amp and get your cables balanced.

post #18 of 223

wow... ur a real downer, eh? 
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lenni View Post

 

you, little english peasant

a) pure ignorance

it doesn’t matter what you think

Go play with cows instead of trolling around hi-fi forums with annoying nonsense.douche 

post #19 of 223


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lenni View Post


 

 


Just because you, little english peasant, don’t hear a difference doesn’t mean everybody is the same.  There’s more to cables that you will never know or understand. Saying things like all cables sound the same, or is only a placebo effect is, a) pure ignorance, and b) laughable.

At the end of day it doesn’t matter what you think. what matters is that I do, and lucky for me there are a whole bunch people who do too. And some of these people (bless their souls) will dedicate a considerable amount of time, effort, and resource into improving cables, and other related gear for our better sound experience.

 

Go play with cows instead of trolling around hi-fi forums with annoying nonsense.douche 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Doug View Post

wow... ur a real downer, eh? 
 


 


@ El_Doug ,That was some post, what do you think set him off?

post #20 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lenni View Post


 

 


Just because you, little english peasant, don’t hear a difference doesn’t mean everybody is the same.  There’s more to cables that you will never know or understand. Saying things like all cables sound the same, or is only a placebo effect is, a) pure ignorance, and b) laughable.

At the end of day it doesn’t matter what you think. what matters is that I do, and lucky for me there are a whole bunch people who do too. And some of these people (bless their souls) will dedicate a considerable amount of time, effort, and resource into improving cables, and other related gear for our better sound experience.

 

Go play with cows instead of trolling around hi-fi forums with annoying nonsense.douche 

 

All I posted was a one line message pointing the OP toward a link in my signature that presents various applications of psychoacoustic science to certain claims made by certain audiophiles.

 

Your attitude is quite disturbing, especially "At the end of day it doesn’t matter what you think. what matters is that I do". The problem with that sentence, Lenni, is that I'm not sure you are thinking. Posting something laced with ad hominem attacks just because the other person has a different ideology to you is actually quite offensive to me. I'm not sure, Lenni, what caused you to defecate in your pants over this post - perhaps it was the use of 'bold'? In any case, your response was childish, inimical and indicates you invests far too much of your self-esteem on the internet.

 

If you feel the need to throw around ad hominem, feel free to PM me.


Edited by Draca - 6/5/10 at 4:30am
post #21 of 223

I'd like Lenni to put his money where his mouth is and do a DBT/ABX  (if he loses he has to give up his $1800 cable).

 

The only reason to swap cables IMO is if you want to recable the connectors (single-ended vs balanced).  And as Draca puts in his sig (great description), aesthetically pleasing.

 

If you really want different sound, get a different headphone or a tube amplifier or a $10000 power cable!  ;-)

post #22 of 223

Quote:
Originally Posted by Draca View Post

 

All I posted was a one line message pointing the OP toward a link in my signature that presents various applications of psychoacoustic science to certain claims made by certain audiophiles.

 

Your attitude is quite disturbing, especially "At the end of day it doesn’t matter what you think. what matters is that I do". The problem with that sentence, Lenni, is that I'm not sure you are thinking. Posting something laced with ad hominem attacks just because the other person has a different ideology to you is actually quite offensive to me. I'm not sure, Lenni, what caused you to defecate in your pants over this post - perhaps it was the use of 'bold'? In any case, your response was childish, inimical and indicates you invests far too much of your self-esteem on the internet.

 

If you feel the need to throw around ad hominem, feel free to PM me.


What personal experience do you have with cables?

post #23 of 223

Guys read the memo, on these forums the high post count people think cables dont change anything, portable audio is a joke, and if you critiscize the flavour of the month peice of equipment you WILL get trolled.

How dare you question what people that have more than 1K posts say, they post more therefore they have perfect hearing and know all about audio.

Right?

post #24 of 223


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by aimlink View Post


What personal experience do you have with cables?

 

In another thread that you were involved in I'm pretty sure I was asked the same question, specifically relating to my experience with recabling my HD600s. I have tried four different cables (and stock) and heard no difference of note. The one I've settled on now is a custom recable from ebay that looks like some of the ALO recables at a fraction of the price and ironically still has a more expensive quarter inch plug than the ALO. Looks nice, sounds identical to stock. The other cables I tried were the Cardas, SAA, and a custom Kimber recable from ebay. I've also tried the HD650 cable which merely has a thicker plastic coating - no difference in any of these in ABX tests.

 

I have more general experience with interconnects and power cables, a couple of years ago I wasn't aware of the science behind them so I did waste a lot of money on a placebo that gradually wore off. Once I started attending cognitive science lectures at university and talked to some physicists studying electromagnetism about some of the claims made about these cables I realised just how fallible our hearing can be. I have not found one properly conducted DBT or ABX where differences between cables have been found. Basically, if one can't hear it in a blind test, than one's mind is compensating. Again, Ethan Winer explains and examines all of these phenomena in his presentation.

 

I think there is a list composed by Prog Rock Man (iirc) of some DBTs/ABXs conducted by reputable sources in the Sound Science forum.

 

Edit: Just stumbled across this, quite a hilarious find: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/475342/not-sure-i-ve-made-the-right-decision

 

It's Lenni making the fascinating (*sarcasm*) discovery that his speakers sound better when he turns up the volume. This is the sort of person we're dealing with here...


Edited by Draca - 6/5/10 at 7:37am
post #25 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by Draca View Post

In another thread that you were involved in I'm pretty sure I was asked the same question, specifically relating to my experience with recabling my HD600s. I have tried four different cables (and stock) and heard no difference of note. The one I've settled on now is a custom recable from ebay that looks like some of the ALO recables at a fraction of the price and ironically still has a more expensive quarter inch plug than the ALO. Looks nice, sounds identical to stock. The other cables I tried were the Cardas, SAA, and a custom Kimber recable from ebay. I've also tried the HD650 cable which merely has a thicker plastic coating - no difference in any of these in ABX tests.

 

I have more general experience with interconnects and power cables, a couple of years ago I wasn't aware of the science behind them so I did waste a lot of money on a placebo that gradually wore off. Once I started attending cognitive science lectures at university and talked to some physicists studying electromagnetism about some of the claims made about these cables I realised just how fallible our hearing can be. I have not found one properly conducted DBT or ABX where differences between cables have been found. If you can't hear it in a blind test, than your mind is compensating. Again, Ethan Winer explains and examines all of these phenomena in his presentation.

 

I think there is a list composed by Prog Rock Man (iirc) of some DBTs/ABXs conducted by reputable sources in the Sound Science forum.


Thanks for saying man.  You make for a credible opinion. 

post #26 of 223

I like how the cable believers in this thread use personal attacks instead of any reasoning or evidence. Maybe because there is no evidence or reasoning to use cables...

post #27 of 223

 

What prompted my sort of acrimonious sorry-ass comment (wrong way to get a message across) is that your whole experience regarding cables most likely amounts to one pair of re-cabled headphones; it wasn’t what you expected to hear (which is pretty common with cables), and here you are in what seems to me some kind of mission in telling the whole world about cable reality. not good enough.

 

This whole debate about cable placebo and what not, I’m sure is usually from people who has not much experience with cables, or system that would be almost impossible to hear anything. Otherwise I don’t get how a difference could not be heard. For example, I receive a pair of interconnects last week. I was really hoping to hear an improvement since they weren’t cheap, but it wasn’t the case.  So according to this placebo effect, if I’m not mistaken, I should have liked the cables because... whatever, but I didn’t. Reversed placebo???

 

"At the end of day it doesn’t matter what you think". what I meant by that is if you use poor made cables or coat hangers in your system, I couldn't care less. what I care is that I use the right cables for my system. I can easily tell two different cables I'm familiar with apart on my system. I don’t need any scientific measurement machine  to show me they make a difference or not; I’ve the best machine there is: the brain, and the ear. 

 

If anybody wants to do a DBT on my system, with my cables, my music, I’ll take bet up to £1k (cash) per test. If you’re up for it PM me.

 

 

[edit] anyway my apologies 


Quote:
Originally Posted by Draca View Post

 

All I posted was a one line message pointing the OP toward a link in my signature that presents various applications of psychoacoustic science to certain claims made by certain audiophiles.

 

Your attitude is quite disturbing, especially "At the end of day it doesn’t matter what you think. what matters is that I do". The problem with that sentence, Lenni, is that I'm not sure you are thinking. Posting something laced with ad hominem attacks just because the other person has a different ideology to you is actually quite offensive to me. I'm not sure, Lenni, what caused you to defecate in your pants over this post - perhaps it was the use of 'bold'? In any case, your response was childish, inimical and indicates you invests far too much of your self-esteem on the internet.

 

If you feel the need to throw around ad hominem, feel free to PM me.


Edited by Lenni - 6/5/10 at 9:08am
post #28 of 223

Seems the english peasants cannot listen to music or enjoy it. 

 

In reality this only demonstrates that those who spend 1800$ on a cable cannot be told they bought snake oil and a very expensive one.

 

A cable must:

 

1-be thick enough to carry the necessary current

2-be well shielded to avoid interferences

 

No reasonable cable can cost more than (guesstimate) $5/meter.  The rest=people looking for nirvana (heaven) on earth.

post #29 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lenni View Post

 

What prompted my sort of acrimonious sorry-ass comment (wrong way to get a message across) is that your whole experience regarding cables most likely amounts to one pair of re-cabled headphones; it wasn’t what you expected to hear (which is pretty common with cables), and here you are in what seems to me some kind of mission in telling the whole world about cable reality. not good enough.

 

This whole debate about cable placebo and what not, I’m sure is usually from people who has not much experience with cables, or system that would be almost impossible to hear anything. Otherwise I don’t get how a difference could not be heard. For example, I receive a pair of interconnects last week. I was really hoping to hear an improvement since they weren’t cheap, but it wasn’t the case.  So according to this placebo effect, if I’m not mistaken, I should have liked the cables because... whatever, but I didn’t. Reversed placebo???

 

"At the end of day it doesn’t matter what you think". what I meant by that is if you use poor made cables or coat hangers in your system, I couldn't care less. what I care is that I use the right cables for my system. I can easily tell two different cables I'm familiar with apart on my system. I don’t need any scientific measurement machine  to show me they make a difference or not; I’ve the best machine there is: the brain, and the ear. 

 

If anybody wants to do a DBT on my system, with my cables, my music, I’ll take bet up to £1k (cash) per test. If you’re up for it PM me.

 

 

[edit] anyway my apologies 



 


You are hardly sincere. What you've said here is that your ears and brain are more reliable than FR measurement devices and other equipment. This is of course a) ignorant and b) laughable - to use your own terms. Did you actually bother watching the presentation on audiological memory and the placebo effect? (which is by the way, far more complex than always influencing a positive outcome - explaining the latest cable you heard no difference with).

 

Regarding my 'experience' with cables, I already outlined this in a post above, explaining I'd tested four + hd650 stock cables just for one of my headphones. If it helps, when I recabled my hd25s with the 600 stock cable, moving from the steel to OFC conductor, there was, you guessed it, still no difference, although this change is the only one I didn't ABX due to the original cable requiring the 'phones to be dismantled. I have also used Russ Andrews, Clearer Audio, custom ebay power cords, van den Hul and custom eichmann bullet RCA interconnects amongst countless studiospares and monoprice alternatives. Ultimately I kept the ones which were the best value for money (mainly keeping in mind shielding and aesthetics) and sold on or returned others.

 

Insulting my hearing or system will get you nowhere. An argument from incredulity is no argument at all. My audiologist assures me I have perfect hearing, but I'm not sure you care much for anything based in science or reality...

 

What's most phenomenally frustrating yet ironic about your posts is that you have admitted yourself to having no experience with recabling headphones, yet act as if you know all about it. This topic is about the HD600: could you please enlighten us all as to your experience with this headphone, seeing as subjective 'experience' is all you seem to be ranting about?


Edited by Draca - 6/5/10 at 11:01am
post #30 of 223

 

yes I don’t have much experience with HP’s recabling, but what does it matter? I could’ve the most extensive experience, but it would not matter, would it? you want scientific proofs, concrete evidence, etc. only when I can show that you’ll start to hear a difference, is that right? Well I’m afraid I can’t give you that. What I can give you is my opinion on the sound characteristic a specific cable has. And the opinions that some other users wrote about the cable which reflect pretty much everything I hear with the cable. I know it’s all placebo... lol

 

ok, I checked the link in your signature, watched for about #9mins, then I just got bored, and stopped. Thanks wasting me  #9mins. I usually take what “scientists” say with a pinch of salt. To me some scientists seem like religious fanatics. It’s all about proof – if it can’t be measured it’s not real, or something like that. And when they bump into something that cannot be explained they’ll make up some ridiculous theory for it. Fact!

 

you see, I’m not interested in hearing some dumbass scientific theory. I’d rather trust what I hear with my own ears. and what I hear is 100% true and real, as far as sound difference with cables is concerned. I’ve no doubts about it.

 

anyway, I’m sick already of the cable “debates”, so that's it for me. I'll let you get on with your little mission, and move on. so long


Quote:
Originally Posted by Draca View Post




You are hardly sincere. What you've said here is that your ears and brain are more reliable than FR measurement devices and other equipment. This is of course a) ignorant and b) laughable - to use your own terms. Did you actually bother watching the presentation on audiological memory and the placebo effect? (which is by the way, far more complex than always influencing a positive outcome - explaining the latest cable you heard no difference with).

 

Regarding my 'experience' with cables, I already outlined this in a post above, explaining I'd tested four + hd650 stock cables just for one of my headphones. If it helps, when I recabled my hd25s with the 600 stock cable, moving from the steel to OFC conductor, there was, you guessed it, still no difference, although this change is the only one I didn't ABX due to the original cable requiring the 'phones to be dismantled. I have also used Russ Andrews, Clearer Audio, custom ebay power cords, van den Hul and custom eichmann bullet RCA interconnects amongst countless studiospares and monoprice alternatives. Ultimately I kept the ones which were the best value for money (mainly keeping in mind shielding and aesthetics) and sold on or returned others.

 

Insulting my hearing or system will get you nowhere. An argument from incredulity is no argument at all. My audiologist assures me I have perfect hearing, but I'm not sure you care much for anything based in science or reality...

 

What's most phenomenally frustrating yet ironic about your posts is that you have admitted yourself to having no experience with recabling headphones, yet act as if you know all about it. This topic is about the HD600: could you please enlighten us all as to your experience with this headphone, seeing as subjective 'experience' is all you seem to be ranting about?

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