Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Headphone Amps (full-size) › Matrix M-Stage (Clone) vs. Lehmann Black Cube Linear
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Matrix M-Stage (Clone) vs. Lehmann Black Cube Linear - Page 2

post #16 of 29

Wow...

 

The Lovely Cube is much cheaper even compared to the M-Stage...

 

Please let us know what you think of the Lovely Cube.

post #17 of 29

Well, for those who don't have the time to fix up the board, there's already a cheaper version than m-stage.

 

http://cgi.ebay.com.sg/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180526785144

 

This is a direct clone from what I compare to the image from web where as m-stage is slightly moded version.

 

I have own the above for about 2 weeks and it drive my HD800 and T1 very well, a lot better than my moded maverick audio D1. The only draw back is the heatsink is very hot that I have to stand it up from it's PCB mounting position (just like how m-stage mod their version) to avoid cookingthe cap next to it. Other mod I did was replace the 6 small 470uf to 1000uf green muse nichicon, direct signal in wiring to the volumn pot by passing the input caps cos I knew my DAC out already have coupling caps, and change the opamps to LM4562.

 

 

 

Mav

post #18 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mavwong View Post

Well, for those who don't have the time to fix up the board, there's already a cheaper version than m-stage.

 

http://cgi.ebay.com.sg/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180526785144

 

This is a direct clone from what I compare to the image from web where as m-stage is slightly moded version.

 

I have own the above for about 2 weeks and it drive my HD800 and T1 very well, a lot better than my moded maverick audio D1. The only draw back is the heatsink is very hot that I have to stand it up from it's PCB mounting position (just like how m-stage mod their version) to avoid cookingthe cap next to it. Other mod I did was replace the 6 small 470uf to 1000uf green muse nichicon, direct signal in wiring to the volumn pot by passing the input caps cos I knew my DAC out already have coupling caps, and change the opamps to LM4562.

 

 

 

Mav


 

Can you post some internal pictures of your mods? What was the change in swapping out the 470uf caps to 1000uf?

post #19 of 29
post #20 of 29

Here u are:

If size fits, fine gold series is better cap. May be swap out the bottom most 2 caps for the opamps to FG or KZ. Thinking of swap out the 2 4700uf vishay to same capacity Elna. Also, rebolt the heatsink before you solder new caps in as it will be very difficult to tighten the screw if the caps is in place.

 

IMG_8005.JPG


IMG_8009.JPG

Quote:
Originally Posted by francisdemarte View Post




 

Can you post some internal pictures of your mods? What was the change in swapping out the 470uf caps to 1000uf?

post #21 of 29

I have both matrix  m-stage and Lehmann BCL and I can assure you that m-stage is not a BCL clone, even with OPA 627 mod. Simply put the difference is a day and night.

 

Mac Pro 6 core Westmere 3.33  16g Ram > Weiss Dac2(firewire)  > Lehmann BCL > Sen HD800

post #22 of 29

vovkinson, please share more of your experience about the differences on both amps, I'm sure many people would like to hear.

post #23 of 29

Well, first of all it's clarity and refinement. Lehmann BCL does not have any accents and colors (in good way). I would say it's kind of neutral. But you can hear every nuance of the sound mix

The drum cymbals are articulate and precise   and  they  come to your ear with no "sand"  . The musical instruments separation is phenomenal and they are in their own layers.

Matrix m-stage is not bad, but for some reason it does not like my Sennheiser HD800. The trebles are harsh, the mids are smothered and not natural, the bass is a little exaggerated . 

My AKG  K-240 did not hate the m-stage though ,but they're not as transparent as the HD800 , or maybe it's AKG 600 ohm impedance that m-stage likes better than HD800's 300 ohm.

 

The setup was  Mac Pro > Weiss Dac2 hooked to Mac's firewire port > Lehmann BCL > HD800 

                         Mac Pro > Weiss Dac2 > Matriix m-stage > HD800 / AKG K-240

 

Again it's the matter of personal perception, but to my taste Matrix m-stage can't be called Lehmann BCL's clone. They are completely different in any aspects.

 

P.S.   Matrix m-stage was tested with OPA 627 mod  with gain switch 0db and 10db.  With 10db gain the drums sound a little better, but the mids got more compressed  than in 0db


Edited by vovkinson - 11/20/10 at 2:51pm
post #24 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by vovkinson View Post


Well, first of all it's clarity and refinement. Lehmann BCL does not have any accents and colors (in good way). I would say it's kind of neutral. But you can hear every nuance of the sound mix



The drum cymbals are articulate and precise   and  they  come to your ear with no "sand"  . The musical instruments separation is phenomenal and they are in their own layers.



Matrix m-stage is not bad, but for some reason it does not like my Sennheiser HD800. The trebles are harsh, the mids are smothered and not natural, the bass is a little exaggerated . 



My AKG  K-240 did not hate the m-stage though ,but they're not as transparent as the HD800 , or maybe it's AKG 600 ohm impedance that m-stage likes better than HD800's 300 ohm.



 



The setup was  Mac Pro > Weiss Dac2 hooked to Mac's firewire port > Lehmann BCL > HD800 



                         Mac Pro > Weiss Dac2 > Matriix m-stage > HD800 / AKG K-240



 



Again it's the matter of personal perception, but to my taste Matrix m-stage can't be called Lehmann BCL's clone. They are completely different in any aspects.



 



P.S.   Matrix m-stage was tested with OPA 627 mod  with gain switch 0db and 10db.  With 10db gain the drums sound a little better, but the mids got more compressed  than in 0db




Thank you for your feedback on this topic. I bought the Lehmann because I didn't want to spend $300 on the M-Stage and not be happy and then buy the Lehmann. I'm glad the see I made the right choice.
post #25 of 29

How does the m-stage compare to the lehmann when it comes to raw speed? I've heard the BCL is blazingly fast...

post #26 of 29

I think the LBC is just about the most overpriced amp I've heard; there's been two at half the price that sounded as good or better to me. I think the Meier Concerto is a far superior product, with a smaller price tag.

 

However, I've also come to prefer mid fi phones, so a top shelf amp is wasted on my gear and tastes. So a warm amp with enough grunt to run my 400ohm phones is my main criteria, and the M stage is one of the best I've heard for the money. I've heard a few chinese amps at that mark, and they've been pretty ordinary. I even own another LBC clone, the HEF188 - and the M-stage is a far superior product. Warmer sounding and plenty of useable power and volume, via the gain options. the HEF internal gain is set way too high, with no option to change it, and has no fine volume control whatsoever, even with my high ohm phones.

 

Sure, there's better out there, but not everyone wants the ultimate, they want something that works with what they have and what they like, without going crazy trying to afford it.

 

 

post #27 of 29

One big advantage of the M-Stage over the BCL is that it has replacable opamps

post #28 of 29

what opamp does the lehman bcl use?

post #29 of 29

Hello everybody!

 

I guess I am one of the few people who actually have both the M-Stage (original 2134 and 2x 627) and the BCL. I have to say that the difference in sound quality is very apparent to my ears, as the BCL is the better amp in every aspect for me. I don't know how Lehmann Audio pulls this off, because just by looking at the pictures of both amps one would assume that they are the same. They're not when you can compare them side by side! I am listening to Kenny Barron and Charlie Haden ("Night and the city") right now: the piano sounds richer, high notes have a nice sparkle to them and are in no way sharp, Haden's bass is powerful.... Simply put: it's immersive and life-like. I don't want to say that the M-Stage is a bad amp, because it simply isn't. It offers great value for what you have to pay, but it is NOT a clone of the Black Cube Linear. To me, the BCL allows for a more realistic experience of music.

 

Setup: Sony SCD XB790 QS --> Yulong D18 --> Kimber Kable Timbre (RCA) --> Lehmann Audio BCL --> Audez'e LCD-2 Rev. 2

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Headphone Amps (full-size)
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Headphone Amps (full-size) › Matrix M-Stage (Clone) vs. Lehmann Black Cube Linear