A question to all the vinyl junkies

I'm certainly no vinyl junkie, but I did check out several vinyl records lately and I have to say that I really enjoy 45 rpm singles. These are beyond doubt the best sounding vinyl records you can get. I bought "Don't Worry, Be Happy" by Bobby McFerrin with "Good Lovin'" as b-side in mint condition (for two bucks ) and boy does it sound GREAT! As for these noises you mentioned, in case we both mean the same thing: no, these noises are not an integral part of vinyl records, you can get a clean and pleasing sound out of a decent vinyl rig with a record in fairly good condition. Even "normal" 33⅓ rpm records can sound great; it really depends on the condition of the record and your equipment.

How old is the stylus you are using? Maybe you have to replace it...

It is definitely possible to listen vinyl without hearing any distracting surface noise. How did you clean it? Did you use an RCM (record cleaning machine) and some quality record cleaning solution (like Vinyl Zyme)? One cause of surface noise is bacteria in the grooves that can only be cleaned with a RCM, dry cleaning only usually isn't sufficient.

Another cause of unwanted noise is damage to the vinyl. Usually caused by repeated play on a less than quality turntable, or a turntable with a bad stylus, or a turntable that has not been set up properly. Unfortunately once damaged, it cannot be restored.

That said, vinyl is still my media of choice.
 

Even new vinyl can sometimes exhibit a distracting amount of noise. I purchased the new 180g MoFi releases of Santana S/T and Abraxas and both had some pops and clicks. Once cleaned on my VPI 16.5, the majority of the distracting noise went away. In my opinion, owning a quality wet/dry cleaning system is essential to owning vinyl.

I can't. My record record player (Pioneer) is over thirty years old and also the cartridge/stylus (audio-technica AT-VM8HII) is quite old, but overall I have to say that it plays back most records surprisingly well. I use no "proper" cleaning solutions, and still I hear almost no pops or clicks. Every once in a while I can hear something, but like mentioned before, it does the job better than I first thought it would.

What about getting a new cartridge? Chances are that you won't find just the stylus for your cartridge, so a completely new cartridge including stylus might be the ticket for you. I'm not at all an expert when it comes to vinyl, but I'd say that the cartridge/stylus are amongst the parts that are most important, since there is direct contact with the record.

EDIT: To answer your other question - yes, it is possible to play back vinyl "like a CD". It really just depends on the record player (but doesn't have to be something that costs more than a middle class car) and the condition of the records. I think the films you talk about are rather old, aren't they? They probably portray older, maybe even worn out shellac discs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by plonter 

I got some pretty old stylus and i used a tissue to clean the recoeds...no spacial equipment or anything.

so are you saying that using the right equipment and getting a like new condition records will give a clean sound without "pop" noises at all?  like a cd?     the reason i am asking is becuase the "pop" noise from the first second you put the stylus on the record is kind of classic sound...you can see it in movies all the time.  

one of the reasons i started this thread is because i doubted that one could get a 100% clean sound out of a record 100% of the playing time without even a single pop noise...can you?

I would advise against using tissue on your vinyl, tissue leaves lint behind which can cause surface noise. I do have many albums that exhibit very little surface noise, but 100% noise free "like a CD" is not what vinyl is about in my opinion. To me, part of listening to vinyl is eliminating surface noise that distracts from the music, and that can only be done with undamaged records and knowing how to properly clean them and handle them. You do NOT need a $25,000 turntable, with a $10,000 tonearm and cartridge. You DO need a turntable that has been properly set up and clean, undamaged media. My table is a SOTA Comet with an RB300 tonearm and a Grado Sonata cartridge. Total cost was about $1,200.
 

You can get rid of static to a good extent using this :

http://www.juno.co.uk/products/299784-01.htm?currency=USD&utm_source=google_us&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=Google%2BShopping

Otherwise there is no LP that is click and pop free. Better your rig you get better reproduction - meaning including clicks & pops.

There are many reasons for that :

> the nature of the media and pressing process, flawed master being used for pressing, tiny drops of glue in the groves from sticking the paper label or other foreign particles (cigarette smoke, oils etc).

> wear and tear and damaged LPs, vertical bumps etc.

Good practice is to clean a new LP as well.

Nevertheless you can buy new LPs who have more than acceptable flaws in spite of cleaning (probably flawed master ?).

Good pressings however allow for full enjoment of the music. After a while you do not "hear" the clicks and pops here and there.

(at least they never bother me).

I clean new LPs and/ure used LPs using  15% propyl alcohol and 85% destilled water and a drop of detergent (the type used in photolabs for rinsing developed films). I apply this with a spray bottle and the use a special brush like this

http://www.amazon.com/Listener-Select-Record-Cleaning-Brush/dp/B001IQ7QCU

 forcing the liquid into the groves with gentle circular motion of the brush. Finally I wipe the LP with kitchen paper towels and air dry the LP for 20 min. (if the LP is extremely soiled/dirty  you might need to repeat the process few times)

Caution: propyl alcohol is very toxic, so clean your records close to an open window or in a forced ventilated space. Do not inhale !

Of course, if you have a huge collection of LPs, a cleaning machine would be great.

I read an interview with Michael Fremer a year or so ago where he said the clicks and pops are analogous to the elderly folks coughing at the symphony.  Sure, they may detract from the experience, but the overall experience remains preferable to both listening to a medium other than vinyl and not being at the symphony, respectively.

That said, I have been very disappointed with certain new 180g vinyl pressings (Heaven and Hell - The Devil You Know, and Iron Maiden - Death on the Road), due to the large amount of surface noise.  In both of those cases I regret having paid the premium for vinyl, and have written to the record companies to complain (no response letters received so far).  However, the DSOTM 30th anniversary remaster by Kevin Grey, among many others in my collection, is a fantastically quiet piece of vinyl and it gives me great pleasure whenever I spin it.

I guess for me it depends on the recording.  I need to have both a record player and a CD player in my setup.

I believe you would change your mind if you had a chance to hear for example an old Louis Armstrong recording  of  St.James Infirmery  - it is out of this world  (with clicks and pops included). 

You should understand that listening to vinyl is a ceremonial magic as well.

I have a top gear for computer music, SACD and DVD-A playback wit a huge library > 3.5 TBytes hi-res files bla, bla, bla - but when I really listen to music it is always vinyl .

But of course - to each its own. Afterall what counts is the music itself.

Cheers !

CDs often have clipping due to the "loudness wars", so there are trade offs with a lot of digital recordings, as well.  

Quote:

Originally Posted by plonter 

I think that even a single pop noise during a whole record (vinyl) is enough in order to make vinyl unusable.   if you like it its ok..but you can't consider yourself as a purists..because the noises are not a part of the music,they are a terrible terrible faults of old analog technology.  in the past this was the only way to play music,but nowdays with all the digital straming we do not need this.

 

UNLESS,you are getting a 100% clean and pure sound from the turntable,than the above statement is not pointed towards you.

I don't feel that way at all, but I will say that most of my records are 99% totally quiet, and that is enough for me.

That requires some work, and expense though.  You can't get dead-quiet used records without wet-vacuum cleaning them, IMO. There is just no other way.  And even then, if they are scratched, they will have problems.  But I have bought a LOT of used vinyl over the years, and most of it was able to be cleaned to almost dead silence with my wet-vacuum record cleaning machine.

With new records, once cleaned with the RCM, if they are not 99.9% quiet, I send them back for a replacement.

And as mentioned, you have to have a decent cartridge that is set up OK and isn't worn.  Doesn't have to be expensive, though - the Shure M97XE does a great job of minimizing surface noise.

I can assure you no one who has heard records at my place thought surface noise was a problem in enjoying the music at all.

And as UofMTiger said, I hear distortion in a pretty fair number of digital recordings these days.