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A (better sounding?) alternative to Foobar2000 -OR- A musing in the realm of bit-perfect streaming - Page 21

post #301 of 341

Isn't kmplayer with reclock bitperfect with movies? anyway, I dont have a home theater receiver with dts which is why I got confused with the whole argument earlier with the static with dts files :D I'm still in the stone age with my stereo integrated amp hehehe

post #302 of 341

BTT Is there some kind of receiver dts input simulator software of some sort where we can test the bitperfect thing? That would be a cool piece of test software :D

 

For now, Ive got to bring my laptop to a friends place just to test all my players using wasapi and asio to check for bitperfect output... Also, since I am using a nuforce udac I am assuming the coax out of the udac should be fine for testing. If it never registers as bitperfect with any player using either asio or wasapi then I will now doubt the D to D conversion inside the uDac from usb to coax.

post #303 of 341
Originally Posted by b0dhi View Post

 

All it would take is someone with a DAC where the clock is generated at the DAC end rather than the PC end, and which is digitally isolated from the PC.

 

Well, the cPlay coder says that players sound different due to software jitter within the windows kernel...I really don't see what the DAC you are describing could do about that as the clock has to be generated from the computer...you cannot send a S/PDIF signal w/o clocking, and the XXHighEnd coder has measured jitter from foobar and his player and they were drastically different...he even found that foobar was always using the same "pattern". Trying what you just said would be like eating soup w/ a fork(besides being completely impossible). We need someone w/ the right gear to measure jitter to work on all those players...but I guess we won't find someone to do that anyway.

 

if you find Reclock/foobar/XXHighEnd to sound exactly the same on XP(using bit-perfect KS/ASIO) or on W7(from what donunus says), I think it's time to question your gear and/or your hearing tbh.

 

here's something to train your ears: http://www.moultonlabs.com/full/product01/

 

It learns you how to identify resonant frequencies by ear etc etc....so until someone comes up w/ independent jitter measurements like on those two links....we can spend another 50 pages making fun at one another..."you lunatic placebo clown" <> "you tin ears nocebo deaf fruitcake" 

 

http://www.cicsmemoryplayer.com/index.php?n=CPlay.SoftwareInducedJitter

 

http://www.phasure.com/index.php?topic=692.0;all

 

Originally Posted by donunus View Post

I like vlc too. For movies for laptop use, vlc's simplicity is unparalleled. AVI, mpg movies arent that great sounding anyway for me to care about the smallest of differences with bitperfect, directsound, etc...


watching movies w/o Reclock(taking care of perfect smoothness in 48/96Hz) makes my eyes bleed...I cannot stand dropped frames


Edited by leeperry - 6/5/10 at 10:14am
post #304 of 341


So you are using the uDAC as a transport?  

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by donunus View Post

BTT Is there some kind of receiver dts input simulator software of some sort where we can test the bitperfect thing? That would be a cool piece of test software :D

 

For now, Ive got to bring my laptop to a friends place just to test all my players using wasapi and asio to check for bitperfect output... Also, since I am using a nuforce udac I am assuming the coax out of the udac should be fine for testing. If it never registers as bitperfect with any player using either asio or wasapi then I will now doubt the D to D conversion inside the uDac from usb to coax.

post #305 of 341
Quote:
Originally Posted by leeperry View Post

 

 

if you find Reclock/foobar/XXHighEnd to sound exactly the same on XP(using bit-perfect KS/ASIO) or on W7(from what donunus says), I think it's time to question your gear and/or your hearing tbh.

 

 



Guy just doesn't grasp the concept.  There is no such thing as "bit perfect KS/ASIO"  Bit perfect comes from the hardware and software- computer to the digital out.  I have seen plenty KS and ASIO setups that weren't bit perfect.

post #306 of 341
Quote:
Originally Posted by leeperry View Post

 

Well, the cPlay coder says that players sound different due to software jitter within the windows kernel...

 

And has yet to prove it of course.

 

I really don't see what the DAC you are describing could do about that as the clock has to be generated from the computer...you cannot send a S/PDIF signal w/o clocking, and the XXHighEnd coder has measured jitter from foobar and his player and they were drastically different...he even found that foobar was always using the same "pattern".

 

Actually, Peter doesn't know whether it's Foobar or XX that's causing it (and we still don't have full details of his test honestly).  Still, for all we know it's XX at fault according to his second post - not to mention he admits this is far from proving jack.

 

if you find Reclock/foobar/XXHighEnd to sound exactly the same on XP(using bit-perfect KS/ASIO) or on W7(from what donunus says), I think it's time to question your gear and/or your hearing tbh.

 

here's something to train your ears: http://www.moultonlabs.com/full/product01/

 

Insults again?

 

It learns you how to identify resonant frequencies by ear etc etc....so until someone comes up w/ independent jitter measurements like on those two links....we can spend another 50 pages making fun at one another..."you lunatic placebo clown" <> "you tin ears nocebo deaf fruitcake" 

 

No one's throwing around insults but you.  Placebo is a WELL KNOWN and DOCUMENTED phenomena.  NO ONE is immune to it, and no one should feel bad should they be taken in by it.  It can even have physical manifestation as sugar pills have shown.

 

We aren't calling anyone crazy - just human.  On the other hand we're attacked and ridiculed because we demand concrete evidence that you just can't provide.


Responses in bold.

post #307 of 341
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shike View Post


Responses in bold.


Well said.

post #308 of 341
Quote:
Originally Posted by leeperry View Post

 


watching movies w/o Reclock(taking care of perfect smoothness in 48/96Hz) makes my eyes bleed...I cannot stand dropped frames


This sort of hyperbole and sensationalism has been making my brain bleed for the last 21 pages.

post #309 of 341

well I cannot stand dropped frames, I really can't...it completely ruins my movie experience! I watch movies on a big projection screen and I want them butter smooth from start to end...Reclock is a god bless, I'm sorry for you if you watch your movies in 60Hz...we all have different standards I guess, don't be offended to have low ones, you should be proud as anything will fit you...how convenient! I also hate to watch movies on a display that's not perfectly calibrated...and I'm far from being the only one either.

 

many ppl love the d2k and the Pro750, to my ears they are ***** ****. you can mod a d2k as much as you like, you'll still be polishing a turd(as Uncle Erik would say)


Edited by leeperry - 6/5/10 at 11:46am
post #310 of 341
Quote:
Originally Posted by leeperry View Post

well I cannot stand dropped frames, I really can't...it completely ruins my movie experience! I watch movies on a big projection screen and I want them butter smooth from start to end...Reclock is a god bless, I'm sorry for you if you watch your movies in 60Hz...we all have different standards I guess, don't be offended to have low ones, you should be proud as anything will fit you...how convenient! I also hate to watch movies on a display that's not perfectly calibrated...and I'm far from being the only one either.

 

many ppl love the d2k and the Pro750, to my ears they are ***** ****. you can mod a d2k as much as you like, you'll still be polishing a turd(like Uncle Erik would say)


May I suggest you see someone about your passive-aggressive issues?

post #311 of 341

well, you're pretty much all on my ignore list tbh...this is a sterile discussion, we all have different gear/hearing capabilities/standards..."ignorance is bliss", remember? I'm glad you like to watch movies in 60Hz on an uncalibrated display and use foobar for music....as least you're not picky, women like that

 

that Draca guy always tries to catch me wrong in the video department...hehehe, good luck I'd say...I'm not exactly talking out of my *** when it comes to colorimetry and calibration(I've learned from the best ).

 

You need to train your eyes to catch bad colorimetry or the usual problems found on LCD videoprojectors(vertical banding, shading, misconvergence, etc etc)...reason why I prefer DLP. It's the same w/ audio, majkel can hear large differences between all those opamps...just like Andrea, SpudHarris or me: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f6/audio-gd-discrete-op-amps-reviewed-OPA-earth-OPA-moon-OPA-sun-v-2-a-397691/

 

all those opamps sound very different, and I agree w/ almost everything majkel wrote...maybe they'd all sound the same to your (untrained) ears? then you're a lucky guy, coz you can use the cheapest 5532/4580 and live happily ever after! Being picky and having high standards is not fun...at all

 

but pay attention to how those opamps sound, get some good phones and you will start hearing major differences...and maybe then, you'll realize that cables/opamps/media players all sound different...coz they do, they just do. I can find zillion testimonials for those 3 things w/ ppl hearing huge differences...now go train your ears, learn an instrument or whatever. Rome wasn't built in a day.

post #312 of 341
Quote:
Originally Posted by leeperry View Post

well, you're pretty much all on my ignore list tbh...this is a sterile discussion, we all have different gear/hearing capabilities/standards..."ignorance is bliss", remember? I'm glad you like to watch movies in 60Hz on an uncalibrated display and use foobar for music....as least you're not picky, women like that

 

that Draca guy always tries to catch me wrong in the video department...hehehe, good luck I'd say...I'm not exactly talking out of my *** when it comes to colorimetry and calibration(I've learned from the best ).

 

You need to train your eyes to catch bad colorimetry or the usual problems found on LCD videoprojectors(vertical banding, shading, misconvergence, etc etc)...reason why I prefer DLP. It's the same w/ audio, majkel can hear large differences between all those opamps...just like Andrea, SpudHarris or me: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f6/audio-gd-discrete-op-amps-reviewed-OPA-earth-OPA-moon-OPA-sun-v-2-a-397691/

 

all those opamps sound very different, and I agree w/ almost everything majkel wrote...maybe they'd all sound the same to your (untrained) ears? then you're a lucky guy, coz you can use the cheapest 5532/4580 and live happily ever after! Being picky and having high standards is not fun...at all

 

but pay attention to how those opamps sound, get some good phones and you will start hearing major differences...and maybe then, you'll realize that cables/opamps/media players all sound different...coz they do, they just do. I can find zillion testimonials for those 3 things w/ ppl hearing huge differences...now go train your ears, learn an instrument or whatever. Rome wasn't built in a day.


This is just laughable now. You have not listened to anyone's opinion but your own, regal has been pointing out the problems with your claims of bitperfect on your system for the last three pages yet you're still talking about opamps - which I've never brought up...

 

I have only said that software players and cables will sound the same. That's it.

 

One continual thing you fail to grasp is testimonials are not equal to proof.

Secondly, ad hominem does not make you look good.

 

My ears need no training. If you understood cognitive science and audiological memory you might understand the fallacious nature of suggesting such a thing.

 

Since you asked, I do play four instruments.

 

Aside from your inferiority complex, is there anything else you would like to add?


Edited by Draca - 6/5/10 at 2:42pm
post #313 of 341

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by leeperry View Post

 

Well, the cPlay coder says that players sound different due to software jitter within the windows kernel...I really don't see what the DAC you are describing could do about that as the clock has to be generated from the computer

No it doesn't.

 

...you cannot send a S/PDIF signal w/o clocking

Doesn't have to be SPDIF.

 

, and the XXHighEnd coder has measured jitter from foobar and his player and they were drastically different...he even found that foobar was always using the same "pattern".

Trying what you just said would be like eating soup w/ a fork(besides being completely impossible).

I am sitting next to an implementation of this impossible DAC right now.

 

We need someone w/ the right gear to measure jitter to work on all those players...but I guess we won't find someone to do that anyway.

Not at all. It's a simple matter of using a DAC like I suggested.


Answers in bold.

 

I would've thought you guys would jump at the chance to eliminate these PC/Software/Jitter related effects.


Edited by b0dhi - 6/5/10 at 2:40pm
post #314 of 341
Quote:
Originally Posted by regal View Post


So you are using the uDAC as a transport?  

 


 


I guess you could call it a transport since I'm not testing my soundcards optical out. Its basically a dac but if I use its coax out then it shouldn't get to the dac section yet but be just like a usb to coax(D to D) converter coming from the laptop.

post #315 of 341
Quote:
Originally Posted by b0dhi View Post

Answers in bold.

 

I would've thought you guys would jump at the chance to eliminate these PC/Software/Jitter related effects.


You definitely have ME curious.  What DAC is this, and what 'technology' applies this?

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