Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Computer Audio › A (better sounding?) alternative to Foobar2000 -OR- A musing in the realm of bit-perfect streaming
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

A (better sounding?) alternative to Foobar2000 -OR- A musing in the realm of bit-perfect streaming - Page 8

post #106 of 341
Quote:
Originally Posted by donunus View Post

Yes kmplayer does sound smoother. I really liked its sound except some aac files changed in levels quite a bit compared to foobar and other players. Its as if there were some hidden replaygain thing going on.

 

About the levels argument.... more experienced ears can automatically volume match by listening to the vocals volume for example and matching from there. If the other frequencies are lower in volume like the bass or treble compared to another player at the same vocal volume level then the players don't sound the same... simple as that. The spl meter talk is just for enhancement for those that are less experienced with this stuff and don't know what to focus on when listening.

THIS GUY HAS MAGIC EARS, EVERYONE.

 

Seeing as I've been a live sound technician and sound designer for seven years, but can't tell a difference between the players in sighted or blind tests, it must just be my inexperience, right?

 

If Reclock is doing something different with volume control, THAT is where the difference is coming from.  Not some magical bitperfect transaction.  And if Reclock isn't doing it, it's your sugar-injection.

post #107 of 341

Donunus, you need to be sure you're bypassing all KMP audio processing, The KMP audio transform filter must be desactivated.

post #108 of 341
Originally Posted by Draca View Post

you need to use an SPL meter. Otherwise the differences you've supposedly heard are worth nothing.

 

"louder" bit-perfect, that's a first

 

Originally Posted by JulioCat2 View Post

Donunus, you need to be sure you're bypassing all KMP audio processing, The KMP audio transform filter must be desactivated.

 

Yes, and use ffdshow in 32bit float


Edited by leeperry - 5/29/10 at 1:17pm
post #109 of 341

I'm going to try XXHighend and Minimalist/Stealth right now, 1hr sighted listening tests, then some DBT tomorrow.  I'll report what I find, of course.

 

By the way, if you want an actually fair comparison to Minimalist, you'd have to setup Foobar to buffer fully to memory, like I do.

 

And Minimalist barely works.  It was louder than Foobar, felt more detailed and wider.  Only worked for 30 seconds of a song.  Superlame.  I'd be willing to bet that after volume matching at my amp, it would be similar, if not the same.

 

And XXHighend doesn't work at all.  What a surprise.  And they actually want you to pay for this thing?


Edited by Hybrys - 5/29/10 at 1:51pm
post #110 of 341
Quote:
Originally Posted by donunus View Post




Yes kmplayer does sound smoother. I really liked its sound except some aac files changed in levels quite a bit compared to foobar and other players. Its as if there were some hidden replaygain thing going on.

 

About the levels argument.... more experienced ears can automatically volume match by listening to the vocals volume for example and matching from there. If the other frequencies are lower in volume like the bass or treble compared to another player at the same vocal volume level then the players don't sound the same... simple as that. The spl meter talk is just for enhancement for those that are less experienced with this stuff and don't know what to focus on when listening.


No, no matter how 'experienced' you think you are, you are still victim to the neurological limits of human hearing and audiological memory. I suggest you watch the AES Audio Myths segment featuring Ethan Winer amongst others: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYTlN6wjcvQ

post #111 of 341

People volume matching, if you use ReplayGain in Foobar make sure to turn it off. That was my mistake. And, obviously, max the software's volume. If both players are bit-perfect, they should be the same volume when all ReplayGain/DSPs are turned off and program volume maxed.

 

If they aren't, would the volume clue us in on which one isn't bit-perfect? The louder or the quieter one?

post #112 of 341

hehe, anyway it's the same ole' same ole'...non-believers always look for all the excuses in the world to make believers doubt what they're hearing.

 

we're sorry you can't hear any diff, we really are...no hard feelings I hope

 

Originally Posted by Head Injury View Post
 would the volume clue us in on which one isn't bit-perfect? The louder or the quieter one?

 

I've been traumatized by the loudness war, up to the point that I'll always prefer the quietest one hah.


Edited by leeperry - 5/29/10 at 3:07pm
post #113 of 341

That's actually a good question.  Which one IS bitperfect?  Mind you, we can just, for the moment, consider that bitperfect digital audio doesn't exist, and rate each player as we hear them.

 

Between four test tracks, I found no differences using Minimalist/Stealth.  Still can't get XXHighend to work.  So, I'm not even going to consider it.

post #114 of 341
Thread Starter 
In regards to volume matching, I don't have an spl reader or something fancy to check, but the levels sound the same, and I have all dsp's turned off in foobar. Admittedly the volume might be different, but more importantly, yhe song I referenced literally did not sound the same. The slow rolling hit had a totally different resonance an mood. Also, there is a bug with stealthaudio right now, with the whole stopping thing, so I have been (and suggest)using the earlier 'Playwasapi' release. I've been stacked with alot of other things so I haven't been able to devote more time to that next test. But hopefully tonight I can. I'll post my results, and then finish this off because people are just slinging wild comments at each other. It's not that big a deal, and a little decorum really goes a long way to allow others to seriously consider your statements.
post #115 of 341

So, you are using the version BEFORE this update in the change logs.  Congrats, yours REALLY DOES SOUND DIFFERENT.  And isn't bitperfect.

 

StealhAudioPlayer_0.1.0

"Fix for broken SQ of StealthAudioPlayer_0.0.7 (More on this Later)"

post #116 of 341
Quote:
Originally Posted by JulioCat2 View Post

Donunus, you need to be sure you're bypassing all KMP audio processing, The KMP audio transform filter must be desactivated.

 


 

I thought I did that before when i used kmplayer but for some reason, there are a select few aac albums that just have a lower volume with this player compared to others. I just did what that tutorial thread did before about setting up kmplayer and reclock.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Hybrys View Post

THIS GUY HAS MAGIC EARS, EVERYONE.

 

Seeing as I've been a live sound technician and sound designer for seven years, but can't tell a difference between the players in sighted or blind tests, it must just be my inexperience, right?

 

If Reclock is doing something different with volume control, THAT is where the difference is coming from.  Not some magical bitperfect transaction.  And if Reclock isn't doing it, it's your sugar-injection.


LOL, and so this type of argument starts THE CREDENTIALS THE CREDENTIALS... I won't even go there hahaha

post #117 of 341

I forgot to mention that Reclock passes all the bit-perfect HDCD/DTS tests, even when converted to PCM24 through 32float. I don't think ppl realize how accurate the audio pipeline is in Reclock [:ploumm]

 

and this guy is also mentally challenged I presume? http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/340451/lilith-audio-player/165#post_6497697

 The difference in sq between uLilith and the other audio players I've tried is simply too clear and obvious

 

google is full of that kind of testimonials if you dare searching

 

I could scan a copy of my sound engineer diploma, but I've got nothing to prove...nor to sell, besides I'm not so much of a troll feeder myself.

 

Originally Posted by donunus View Post

I thought I did that 

 

do this : free image host then this: free image host and make a profile for lossy audio in ffdshow, and force 32fp output: free image host


Edited by leeperry - 5/29/10 at 6:17pm
post #118 of 341
Quote:
Originally Posted by donunus View Post

LOL, and so this type of argument starts THE CREDENTIALS THE CREDENTIALS... I won't even go there hahaha


MAGIC EARS should be your top credential.  Seriously, if your ears automatically volume match for you, you need to get that s*** tested and documented.


Edited by Hybrys - 5/29/10 at 6:18pm
post #119 of 341
Quote:
Originally Posted by leeperry View Post

and this guy is also mentally challenged I presume?


The way you twist everyone's words repeatedly is incredibly infantile.

 

Looks like you need some help for your mental deficiencies.

post #120 of 341
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRoderick View Post

In regards to volume matching, I don't have an spl reader or something fancy to check, but the levels sound the same, and I have all dsp's turned off in foobar. Admittedly the volume might be different, but more importantly, yhe song I referenced literally did not sound the same. The slow rolling hit had a totally different resonance an mood. Also, there is a bug with stealthaudio right now, with the whole stopping thing, so I have been (and suggest)using the earlier 'Playwasapi' release. I've been stacked with alot of other things so I haven't been able to devote more time to that next test. But hopefully tonight I can. I'll post my results, and then finish this off because people are just slinging wild comments at each other. It's not that big a deal, and a little decorum really goes a long way to allow others to seriously consider your statements.

 

I highly recommend watching this to understand the importance of SPL level matching and the nature of our auditory system and how easily fallible it is with regard to hearing supposed 'differences': http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYTlN6wjcvQ

 

It will open your eyes (and ears) to the importance of following the scientific method when claiming a difference in software players that are 'bit-perfect'.
 

@leeperry: I'm getting really sick of your holier-than-thou attitude. You may have 5800 posts, but that doesn't make you any more qualified than me, Shike, Hybrys or Head Injury. You may also have a sound engineer 'diploma' (from where if you don't mind me asking?) but you are still human and therefore do not have ears calibrated to the levels of a SPL measuring device or FR analyser.

 

Actually, one way in which to test the output of the bitperfect players being different could be a null test could it not? If anyone has the ability to do this thoroughly that'd be very interesting.

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Computer Audio
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Computer Audio › A (better sounding?) alternative to Foobar2000 -OR- A musing in the realm of bit-perfect streaming