HifiMAN HE-6 Planar Magnetic Headphone - Page 66

Well if it's a speaker amp, I'd say it has a good chance to drive the HE-6 well. I didn't know Little Dot made speaker amps. They don't seem to any longer. Sorry for the confusion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by daveDerek 

it's probably out of production. it was made a few yrs ago. there are some reviews out there (mebbe by TBonner, &/or m8o?). i'd try and find a thread for you but i'm gonna pack it in momentarily.

try here for a little info & a couple of pix of the little dot III+ (or 3+):

http://www.geardesk.com/gear/view/41/

http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/301004
http://community.klipsch.com/forums/t/80137.aspx

http://public.fotki.com/m8o/audiovideo/headphone--headamp/2006-nyc-meet-not-my-pix/

Thanks for the kind words, Larry. You're basing your impressions on the ZDT right? I wish I could try that combination to see how it's going to work out. The original Zana Deux clips with the HE6. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nankai 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by K3cT 

This is where I disagree, Fang. The Stax Omega2 also has a relaxed treble but its imaging is eerily accurate. 

 

Please don't get the impression that I dislike the HE6 as actually I rather adore it especially with its delicious treble but it's just not perfect yet. In fact, even the much vaunted O2 is also not perfect in this man's opinion. Definitely looking forward to the HE7 if you ever plan to release one. 

STAX Omega's high extension is far better than the another headphones. Here we are talking about 1.35um diaphragm vs. about 7um diaphragm. STAX amp is so ugly that STAX omega and STAX amp combo give people a fake impression that their high is dark.

I do not understand how a pair veil high freq headphones can create a sharp image. To my knowledge it is impossible. Not to say they have one of the biggest driver in headphone world, which might conflict to the theory about point source and soundstage.

Yes, I agree with you in regards to O2's treble extension but one thing the HE6's treble that the O2 doesn't have is presence and this is one of the reasons why the HE6 beats the O2 in this area in my opinion. 

And perhaps calling the LCD2 "veiled" is an exaggeration. In some extent, it's in the same vein as the HD600/650 where some called it to be "veiled" while in reality, it has a pretty good treble extension. My treble comparison there was mainly relative to the HE6. 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxvla 

On my gear I hear very good imaging for the most part. If you think of 12 o'clock being directly in front of you, I only start to encounter problems with imaging once you reach approximately 11 from the left side and 1 from the right side. The imaging for sounds presented from 8 to 11 and 4 to 1 is amazingly accurate. Even as you approach 12 from 11 and 1, the imaging is good, but the closer you get the more diffuse it becomes until at precisely 12, you have trouble pinpointing sources.

Maxvla, you always come out with these very interesting observations. I will definitely test this when I hear the HE6 again. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by MuppetFace 

 

Yeah, I'm personally not hearing how the HE-6 is beaten handily by the LCD-2 in imaging and soundstage accuracy. At all. I do not find the HE-6 nebulous sounding in the center, nor do I find that instrument placement sounds confused.

 

I also agree with Fang about the O2 comment. The O2 is only "veiled" when listening to it under-amped like most people seem to do.

My O2 impressions are all based on hearing it with the KGSS. It is good enough for the O2 I think... or is it not? 

Quote:

Originally Posted by DannyB 

 K3cT or anyone else: Any comparisons with the Jade and HE-6?

Sorry, I don't have the Jade. 

Someone mentioned whether the Gilmore Lite could drive the HE6 or not. I'm not sure to be honest with as I didn't have the Lite when I tested the HE6 but for your reference, the Meier Concerto could not bring the HE6 to its full potential. 

I would like to thank everyone for the kind words and I'm glad to know if this helps you in your decision. I just want to remind you that nothing beats hearing it for yourself though. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by K3cT 

My O2 impressions are all based on hearing it with the KGSS. It is good enough for the O2 I think... or is it not? 

 

 

1) It depends on your source just as much.

2) I still stand by my statement. On the KGSS the O2 is not veiled. Obviously we hear differently. Such is our hobby. 

For the record, I didn't say that the O2's treble is veiled. Laid-back perhaps but definitely not veiled. 

I do not agree with you. You could be right per se, only if there is an extended testing/breaking-in procedure for all new drivers. If I were Mr. Fang, I probably would do that regarding all returned pairs for replacing. The break-in period is a purely mechanical and electrochemical phenomenon for de-stressing the vibrating material and for 'aligning' the crystal structure of the conductive materials and the dielectrics. There is nothing spiritual and mind related in this physical process IMO.

My HE-5 were absolutely sibilant when I bought them at 200 hours. Please don't expect to adjust my ears/mind to any sibilance.

Quote:

Originally Posted by K3cT 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxvla 

On my gear I hear very good imaging for the most part. If you think of 12 o'clock being directly in front of you, I only start to encounter problems with imaging once you reach approximately 11 from the left side and 1 from the right side. The imaging for sounds presented from 8 to 11 and 4 to 1 is amazingly accurate. Even as you approach 12 from 11 and 1, the imaging is good, but the closer you get the more diffuse it becomes until at precisely 12, you have trouble pinpointing sources.

Maxvla, you always come out with these very interesting observations. I will definitely test this when I hear the HE6 again. 

It may be an issue of power, perhaps solvable by a speaker amp or even more powerful headphone amp. My amp is powerful, but not designed to run 50ohm headphones. It is designed for 120ohm (K1000) and 300ohm headphones primarily. When I run very low impedance phones like 16-32ohm I get some hum depending on the sensitivity of the particular headphone. As a low impedance, but also very low sensitivity headphone, the HE-6 is quite a bit off the path for this amp, but since it is low sensitivity there is no threat of hum.

Really looking forward to putting these on a speaker amp, but will have to wait until the impedance box is ready from Fang. My only decent power amp (125Wpc) is well above 70Wpc which is the stated break point before needing to use the impedance box. I have a low end A/V receiver that is 55Wpc, but since I also don't have a pig tail with speaker taps, it isn't worth the hassle to rush it. I'll just wait for the proper connector with the box to use my better amp.

I'm also looking into upgrading the tubes in my MKVI should the speaker amp route prove unsuccessful. I'll be looking at amps which may be a better match for the impedance and sensitivity needed for the HE-6 should both fail.

I really think the HE-6 perform well enough to be my main cans for a long time, but tonight I realized one of the problems I had with the HD600 is now present with the HE-6, but also until tonight I had no idea what the cause was. With the HD600 for a long time I would get inner ear soreness/pain, in my left ear only, after about 2 hours. This is also present with the HE-6, but it takes longer to develop. I saw a thread here mentioning the clamping force and how the cups distribute force to the side of the head. The idea is that the force applied by the bottom of the cup is enough that it can pinch or at least put pressure on nerves in the neck leading to the inner ear, causing these inner ear issues. I currently have my HE-6 stretching over a box slightly wider than the size of my head in an effort to cease this problem. I dare not try this with my HD600 as I have had an HD600 in the past break across the top headband while simply putting them on my head. I am extremely careful about pulling them apart to slide them on now. Luckily the HE-6 headband is merely metal with leather and can take the strain without shattering. As a test, tonight, after reading that thread, I shifted the HE-6 to a different, less pressure, spot on the left side of my head. The resulting pressure shift increased the force on the right side, and for the first time ever, I felt the same inner ear pain in the right ear.

All that said, if the clamping pressure of these HE-6 isn't fixed i may be forced into the land of high end IEMs. The IEMs I do have, I can listen for 6+ hours without any inner ear discomfort whatsoever. If the LCD-2 is supposed to be as bad or worse about clamping pressure, I may not be satisfied with any other circumaural headphone. I did not have anything remarkable to say about the Stax O2/BH I listened to at a meet (fairly quiet environment, actually), so even stats will likely not answer the call, since the lambas, which have literally no clamping pressure, sounded very interesting, but not in a way that sounded right from top to bottom as the HE-6 does.

We'll see where I end up.

A bit unorthodox that iems is the solve for inner ear pain :).

As for the LCD-2 some get clamping force. Mainly the early adopters and beta testers it seems. I have none whatsoever just enough so they stay in place. Maybe I should measure my head for you lol.

However I am mostly curious about how a speaker amp can be to powerful? Isn´t it safe as long as you keep the volume way low? Or can you still destroy headphones like this by having to powerful amps? My amp is 7x95W would I need an impedance box for the LCD-2?

The good thing about IEMs is they have no clamp!

As for the speaker amp limits, I'm only going off what Fang said in the loaner program thread. I do remember, though, that he had them hooked up to some behemoth amp at CanJam. Something around the 100-150W variety. I'll try to track it down.

edit: Here's a pic of it, still can't find what it is exactly. It doesn't appear that he's using any impedance box in-line.

http://assets.head-fi.org/5/55/55a30902_DSC_0354%5B1%5D.JPG

IEMs are great, but I still am a little undecided. My SM3 sound awesome but I forever finding myself pushing them in as they stick out my ears a little if I want to get the best fit possible.. kind of turns me off. Might have to get them remolded into customs. Anyway, MOAR IMPRESSIONS PLX!

Quote:

Originally Posted by K3cT 

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeadphoneAddict 
 

 

Also good impressions, thanks.  In many places I agree with what you hear with all the phones you mentioned.

 

My feelings do differ from yours in a few places, as I find the HE-6 to clamp less tightly than my LCD-2 and are more comfortable to wear for longer periods of time.  I also don't feel the HE-6 have a nebulous, vague or confused sense of center stage.  I do agree that they are more forward and less laid back than the LCD-2, but I'm finding the imaging to be cohesive to my ears.  While the original HE-5 behaved a little like you described, to my ears this was improved in the HE-5 LE and HE-6.

 

Obviously the gear we are using can affect our impressions, and we all have different tastes and preferences as well that will affect things as well.

Thanks for the kind words, Larry. You're basing your impressions on the ZDT right? I wish I could try that combination to see how it's going to work out. The original Zana Deux clips with the HE6. 

 

I don't get any clipping with the ZDT at max volume, but I am using a lower gain Tung Sol 5751, and I haven't tried the HE-6 with my louder Telefunken smooth plate or cryo'd Mullard re-issue 12AX7 tubes.  I found myself listening to the ZDT tonight with the volume at about 12 o'clock, and when I wanted to feel more like I was there with the performers I ended up at about 2 o'clock.  Turning it up to 5 o'clock max volume resulted in only an estimated 3-4 dB more volume than 2 o'clock.  This is louder than I would listen for extended periods, but not nearly as crazy loud as my HD800 or LCD-2 will go with the ZDT at just 1-2 o'clock.  More power than I have now would be fun, but more dangerous for my chronic tinnitus.   I'm pretty sure that with a 12AX7 tube the ZDT will be a bit louder.

My Nuforce HDP was running off the PWD at the same time, so I tried listening with that and found that at 5 o'clock it will play the production HE-6 an estimated 1-2 dB louder than the ZDT - while the prototype HE-6 via HDP was not much louder than the ZDT and would clip if I pushed the volume past about 3 o'clock.  Despite the HDP's more aggressive upper mids, it still sounded pretty good as a budget amp with the HE-6.  I have not tried the HDP side by side with the EF5 or SAC amps yet, but I'm not even sure if that comparison in power levels is needed, as they all seem acceptable and close.

I would like to try a balanced EHHA or B22 with the HE-6 someday, just to see how that is.  I could investigate the Mini Tori amp too, or sending my ZDT in for the more powerful silver transformers.  I may also still opt for the speaker terminal adapter box when it is ready, although I preferred the streamlined adapter cable that came with the prototype which seemed to work just fine without being too fancy or complicated.

Ordered 13Nov

got this today

"Dear Customer,

Thanks for your payment. Your order was shipped via DHL express package today."

Quote:

Originally Posted by hawkhead 

Ordered 13Nov

 

got this today

 

"Dear Customer,

 

Thanks for your payment. Your order was shipped via DHL express package today."

 

Great news! Can't wait to hear your impressions!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxvla 

The good thing about IEMs is they have no clamp!

 

As for the speaker amp limits, I'm only going off what Fang said in the loaner program thread. I do remember, though, that he had them hooked up to some behemoth amp at CanJam. Something around the 100-150W variety. I'll try to track it down.

 

edit: Here's a pic of it, still can't find what it is exactly. It doesn't appear that he's using any impedance box in-line.

 

http://assets.head-fi.org/5/55/55a30902_DSC_0354%5B1%5D.JPG

Cool. I may get the impedance box if it´s competivelly priced and I like what I hear by the obducted stock LCD-2 cable :). Hopefully it will not make my LCD-2 self destruct  :D
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by matthewh133 

Great news! Can't wait to hear your impressions!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxvla 

The good thing about IEMs is they have no clamp!

 

As for the speaker amp limits, I'm only going off what Fang said in the loaner program thread. I do remember, though, that he had them hooked up to some behemoth amp at CanJam. Something around the 100-150W variety. I'll try to track it down.

 

edit: Here's a pic of it, still can't find what it is exactly. It doesn't appear that he's using any impedance box in-line.

 

http://assets.head-fi.org/5/55/55a30902_DSC_0354%5B1%5D.JPG

I saw his set up at CanJam. The amplifier was a Threshold 400A which is 100 watts per channel pure class A. http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/493214/hifiman-he-6-planar-headphone/15

100 watts might not seem a lot but these Threshold amps have a huge current output which is very good for demanding speakers (in this case headphones) like planars. I own 3 Threshold amps (two T400 and one S550e.

I don't think he was using an impedance box but I am sure he was running it through a loop with one of his headphone amplifiers to use it as pre-amp and control the volume. I remember becuase I was listening to the HE-6 and I was not that impressed but what happened is that I was listening to them out of his EF5 amp. He saw that and change the set up to use the Threshold and control the volume with the EF5 (I think). It was a huge differenece in sound quality and presentation using the power of the Threshold.