Head-Fi.org › Forums › Summit-Fi (High-End Audio) › High-end Audio Forum › HifiMAN HE-6 Planar Magnetic Headphone
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

HifiMAN HE-6 Planar Magnetic Headphone - Page 533

post #7981 of 14203
Quote:
Originally Posted by zenpunk View Post

It looks like some people have been listening to  Audeze cans for too long biggrin.gif.

However, I also believe that power is not the main factor affecting synergy with the HE-6, which I found to be very enjoyable through my STX when watching movie. 

Well, I have only had the LCD-2 for a few months, but still think it's dark sounding. I might be selling it before selling the HE-6 ...

 

I agree on your synergy point - whatever that synergy thing may be - is something that could be an important factor to why different amps make a headphone sound different. Output impedance is of course an important issue in some cases, but not regarding the HE-6, since it's impedance curve is more or less ruler flat (if I understand this correctly).

 

It could be interesting to know what that "synergy" is all about concerning the amping of HE-6 rolleyes.gif

post #7982 of 14203
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarsHP View Post

Thanks for supporting my view! I was beginning to feel a little "lonesome" here tongue.gif


haha for sure, not to say i didnt enjoy the HE-6s, specially from the F1, but that doesnt change the fact that they are a bright headphone.

 

and im not saying the LCD-3s are neutral either, cause they arent, i just like their colorations more

post #7983 of 14203
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarsHP View Post

My ZAPsolute is made by the manufacturer LC Audio, but it was also sold as a kit. It has noticeably tighter and deeper bass than some new 200W amps in the 2500$ range I had home for testing, and it doubles the output all the way down to 200W in 2 Ohm. In 1 Ohm it is stable and delivers 300W. It is dual mono and has two 500W trafos and 240.000 uF of caps in the PSU. It weighs 19,5 kilos. In short it is a beast in terms of bass performance. In addition it is extremely transparent and has a relaxed treble.

 

I am of course not just looking at the graphs, but did you actually study them? If you didn't, then I would recommend it in order to understand this better.

 

You question the power of the amps used to make the graphs on the one hand, and then assume that the graphs are not showing the correct curve, as I understand it. The frequency response at both HeadRoom (headphone.com) and at InnerFidelity show no sign of bass roll-off, but do show excess treble (when interpreting them correctly as described on the sites). If inadequate power was to blame for lacking bass, then the graphs should show decreasing bass, but they are not. HeadRoom's graph actually show INcreasing response from 1kHz and all the way down to 30Hz and at 20Hz it is on level with the 1kHz point. The graph at InnerFidelity is a flat line from 1kHz and down to about 20Hz. This is with what you assume to be measured with amps having not enough power, but they are not showing any signs of lacking bass.

 

Maybe you could benefit from reading the review by Tyll Hertsen of the HE-6 at InnerFidelity? He actually says it has too much treble.

 

I listen at 80 - 90 dB depending on music and mood.

According to Tyll's measurements, the HE-6 needs 19,69mW to reach 90 dB. Do I need to say more?

 

I hate sounding like a theoretical guy, because I am not saying this coming from looking at graphs, reading numbers and reading reviews, but my own impressions during more than a year using overly powerful amps (with low output impedance too). It tells me the opposite of what I have been told here in this thread and the HE-6 amp thread - which I unfortunately have been repeating to others when they have asked about amping the HE-6.

 

There might be other things making us disagree however. For one it could be what we consider neutral. For instance if someone has listened to the HD800 for a long time, then the HE-6 wouldn't sound bright, because the HD800 is even brighter. Also how we perceive a sound to be balanced or neutral. (My previous headphone was K-701, which is even brighter than the HD800.)

 

When I use the HE-6 with the much less powerful Burson Soloist (or Conductor), the HE-6 doesn't sound brighter or thinner. This adds weight to my point, that it is not power issue, when I say that the HE-6 is bright. Please note, that I am not saying it is overly or very bright, just that it is brighter than neutral.

 

No headphone that I have heard has a ruler flat response, so I am not saying that to mock the HE-6.

In fact I LOVE the extremely high transparency and resolution of the HE-6.

 

 

Correct me if I'm wrong.   I never said anything about power being the issue.  I did talk about high current being fed into the headphones.  Your the one that's keep bringing the power thing up.  I speak more on current if anything else.  

 

Current limiting amps can, and will effect the HE-6 in many different ways and brightness is one of them.  Bass may not be effected in the way treble is.  Just because bass is not effected doesn't mean the headphones is getting what it needs to tame the treble.

 

My amp is only 10 watts into 8ohms and 7 watts into 4 ohms so how the heck is power the issue.  It's the current that these headphones need.

 

I ask you yet a third time:  What amps was used to get the results that you rely so heavy on?  Please answer that.

 

The charts and graphs are skewed.  That's what I'm telling you.  Just because Tyll said it is - don't make it so.  I'm sorry you put so much trust in him.  I don't.   I put my trust in my own piratical experience.  

 

For the FR chart and graphs worshipers:  The HE-6 will benefit from being measured from a high current output source and not your run of the mill headphone amp.  The results will be different IMO.  

 

That's all I'm saying.. 


Edited by preproman - 1/28/13 at 5:30pm
post #7984 of 14203
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoupRKnowva View Post


haha for sure, not to say i didnt enjoy the HE-6s, specially from the F1, but that doesnt change the fact that they are a bright headphone.

and im not saying the LCD-3s are neutral either, cause they arent, i just like their colorations more
I'm going to take a stab here to say that the source plays more of a problem than the amp and hot treble. I know my old CAL lacked in refined detail but it was never bright. Sounds like there will be some parameters to establish when we do our listening next visit. I suggest we keep live recordings out of the mix unless it's impeccable.

The bold part is what it all boils down to. What suits the listener best. That doesn't make one or the other better or worse at this level of gear. LIke sex, it's all good.
post #7985 of 14203

True. It goes back to what I was saying earlier. The he-6 is a very truthful and revealing can. It will give you what you give it. I wouldn't say the source is more important. With some cans, it is. Like my w3000anv. Although they improve with better amping, amp matching isn't as crucial as the source. They sound excellent with a plethora of amps, but they improve even more with better sources. With the he-6, both are equally crucial. Think of it as an hd800, and throw in the need gobs of clean, very refined power(not saying 100wpc, but in comparison to other cans). Since the source and amp requirements of the hd800s are just as crucial. With the he-6, is easy to find a very refined, high quality headphone amp. But harder to find one that also fits the power requirements, which is why many go the route of very capable speaker amps.

 

Btw, Tyll took a lot of heat when he reviewed the he-6 because the amp he used, while being a super highend amp, output only a portion of what's need to properly drive them. I'm sure that amp sounds killer with everything else, just not the he-6. Most people don't even use that as a reference anymore. Even David changed his stance on them once he experimented with different amps. Remember in the first ranking, he had the he-6 ranked even behind the lcd-2, but not anymore. Just saying.


Edited by moodyrn - 1/28/13 at 7:24pm
post #7986 of 14203

And at the end of the day, you can always EQ or damp out the portions you don't want.

 

Better to have too much than too little. You can cut out what you don't want, but you can't boost what isn't there. 

post #7987 of 14203
Quote:
Originally Posted by zachchen1996 View Post

Has anyone paired the he6 with any audio research speaker amps?

 

They sound real good, at least with my vintage audio research amp, a D70.

post #7988 of 14203

I cant sell my HE-6.  I just can't, at least not at this point in time.  My HD800 is just raping my ears.  No Anax mod, no tube amp, HD800 is making my ears physically sore.

 

That said I could hope that the HE-6 could be a bit quicker, but then my poor ears.  HE-6 is fine without tube IMO, it can hand even the most neutral system.  Welcome back to my head babybiggrin.gif  HD800 is on probation until it gets Anax mod or my system gets a little smoother or tonally fuller.  This is the problem when you build your system around one headphone...

post #7989 of 14203

 

 

Today I have chance to listen HE6 via Bakoon HDA 5210 Mk3, and it's definitely the best headphone amp I ever heard for HE6, even compared to DarkStar. This amp also a monster power amp like Darkstar, it can drive HE6 only via "low current" output.

 

Compare to DarkStar, I feel this amp is more full bodied, has better midrange presentation, smoother treble, more bass punch, and has the same 3D feeling, though the DarkStar still take the lead in term of width and depth soundstage. I don't think this amp is cleaner or has better detail presentation than Darkstar though.

 

But with the price it's offered (less USD 2000), I think this amp is simply amazing!


Edited by TheMiddleSky - 1/29/13 at 4:47am
post #7990 of 14203

What's the name of the amp?

post #7991 of 14203
Quote:
Originally Posted by preproman View Post

What's the name of the amp?

good question!biggrin.gif

post #7992 of 14203
Quote:
Originally Posted by preproman View Post

What's the name of the amp?

 

Whats the name of that cable? I think I've seen power lines that are thinner than that!

post #7993 of 14203

Oh geez, I thought that *was* the power line... 

post #7994 of 14203
Quote:
Originally Posted by preproman View Post

What's the name of the amp?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by alota View Post

good question!biggrin.gif

 

Actually I already mention the name at my previous post: Bakoon HDA 5210 Mk3

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by elwappo99 View Post

 

Whats the name of that cable? I think I've seen power lines that are thinner than that!

That's ALO Ref 16 terminate to balance (you can see them on HE6). The one that plug to amp is balance converter (to 6,3mm), it's made from ALO cable 16 awg.


Edited by TheMiddleSky - 1/29/13 at 10:48am
post #7995 of 14203
Quote:
Originally Posted by preproman View Post

 

Correct me if I'm wrong.   I never said anything about power being the issue.  I did talk about high current being fed into the headphones.  Your the one that's keep bringing the power thing up.  I speak more on current if anything else.  

 

Current limiting amps can, and will effect the HE-6 in many different ways and brightness is one of them.  Bass may not be effected in the way treble is.  Just because bass is not effected doesn't mean the headphones is getting what it needs to tame the treble.

 

My amp is only 10 watts into 8ohms and 7 watts into 4 ohms so how the heck is power the issue.  It's the current that these headphones need.

 

I ask you yet a third time:  What amps was used to get the results that you rely so heavy on?  Please answer that.

 

The charts and graphs are skewed.  That's what I'm telling you.  Just because Tyll said it is - don't make it so.  I'm sorry you put so much trust in him.  I don't.   I put my trust in my own piratical experience.  

 

For the FR chart and graphs worshipers:  The HE-6 will benefit from being measured from a high current output source and not your run of the mill headphone amp.  The results will be different IMO.  

 

That's all I'm saying.. 

I think you don't want to understand me; that you have decided firmly on what you think is correct, and thus I see no point in trying to make you see and understand what I have to say (and already have explained). You are also saying that I refer to graphs and others opinion even though I have demonstrated otherwise. The amps I have and use are extremely good at delivering current - both fast and lots of it, as you should have understood from my previous posts. I will try one last time to explain it.

 

You ask me what amps were used for these measurments, and I don't know that. You probably knew that when you asked me. However, by asking that question you reveal that you haven't understood what I have already said: It takes only 19,69 MILLI-watts to reach 90 dB with the HE-6. I just looked at the numbers again, and found that to produce those 90dB using 19,69mW, it takes 1018mV and using only 0,019mA - that's 0,000019 Ampere. Are you really trying to make me and others at Head-Fi belive that the amps used for these measurments can't deliver these small amounts of current, and that this produces extra treble?

 

To put things in perspective: I have the Balanced amp card for the HM-801 and it delivers 440mW. The HE-6 sounds less bright out of that than via my Master-6 or ZAPsolute, when the Audio-gd Ref 7.1 DAC is used as source. Why? Because the HM-801 has a rolled off treble and the Ref 7.1 has a flat response. In other words (again): Power or current is not the case, but the treble is.

 

I don't find this exchange of viewpoints fruitful since you don't seem to have an open attitude to what I have to offer. So - let's just say goodbye and leave room for others to share what they have on their mind. I certainly don't wan't to discuss this further along these lines.
 

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: High-end Audio Forum
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Summit-Fi (High-End Audio) › High-end Audio Forum › HifiMAN HE-6 Planar Magnetic Headphone