HifiMAN HE-6 Planar Magnetic Headphone - Page 487

And 120dB is required while listening high res classical music and symphonic and even that its not necessery for you to listen all details I think. other music is much less demanding.

Quote:

Originally Posted by alota 

So, in theory, my balanced beta is good because at 50 ohm the power is around 7-8 watts

It's only good if it sounds good "To You" that's all that matters..

http://www.apexhifi.com/specs.html

Quote:

Originally Posted by knopi 

What do you think guys about this speaker amp for HE6? CustomWorks Hypa A170: http://translate.google.cz/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=cs&ie=UTF-8&u=customworks.cz&sl=cs&tl=en&history_state0=

Thanks

I asked maker for more info/specs. And it is AB class speaker amp, 80-120 mA, it would be run 8 watts into 50 Ohm (HE6) all in class A. What do you think guys? And amps which were mentioned here have bigger distortion than this. I am interested try this and maybe one tube Prima Luna Four or Five with them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevin gilmore 

tyll's calibrated measurements here

http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/HiFiMANHE6.pdf

 

20mw for 90db.

 

Differences in various measurements depend on the

dummy head, and a bunch of other factors. Even so, its

about 1 db max.

That number seems pretty much spot on for what most of us are pumping into it compared to the "official" (fantasy) spec.  I'd say that's a good measurement!

Quote:

Originally Posted by zibra 

And 120dB is required while listening high res classical music and symphonic and even that its not necessery for you to listen all details I think. other music is much less demanding.

Well, if you want to listen to the high res music at FS, yes, assuming the recording contains the full 120dB up to 0dbFS down to -120dB.   Of course who listens at FS and still has ears to tell about it?   Even the highest dynamic range recording I have (CSO's Mahler Symphony No. 1 24/96) which is a punishing listen on headphones, especially HE-6, in the absence of adding a DR compressor, the recording still doesn't peak out at 0dB, more like -10dB and starts at about -110dB (which is pretty close to the floor)  So we're still talking about 100 dB of DR, which is well above a CD's max range of 92dB. 

I can't listen to it without throwing my DEQ into some pretty severe compression (1:1.8 starting at about -50dB OR 1:3.5 starting at about -23dB), however in terms of peaks, given those numbers, assuming 50ohm impedance, my amp should easily be pushing 20W at 50% volume....so I could have been hitting momentary 100+dB peaks even with some compression.  But honesty a peak over 90dB for more than a moment is probably not what most of us ever really want to listen to.  Ever.   90dB is roughly the peak of a live orchestra at listening position (obviously it's much louder if you're a bassoonist....)  120dB is roughly a live amplified rock concert....which is, IMO typically way too loud, painful, and unpleasant.  120dB peak makes sense in a recording since that's probably the actual sound levels on the stage for an orchestra, but in playback you'd usually want it attenuated to 90dB, including whatever detail loss that includes, since that's what you're really hear sitting in the concert hall.  No one should really be listening to music at 120dB even for peaks more than very rarely...and most of us are way too addicted to music for that to be permissible.  That CSO Mahler 1 recording is pure pain with headphones

I would guess that most of us doesnt listen to higher than 100-105 dB. 110dB should be waaaay enough for 95% of music. Im almost convinced that people talking about monsters to drive headphones are:

a) Not educated what amount of power and voltage HP need for very reasonable level of listening to most of records and how it works,

b) Flat presentation of HP force you too listen louder, Maybe?

c) Speakers amps are cheaper than efficient headphone amps. Some headfiers stated it BUT I just see people are buying very costly monsters also, so that point is debatable.

d) Cheap speakers amp give you couloured, full, rounded... (type what you want) sound which some may find as better sound at certain volume level.

e) People like to have nice looking monsters at home :D

Maybe some of that above statments are weird, strange, not true etc. Its just my point of view.

Quote:

Originally Posted by preproman 

 

 

It's only good if it sounds good "To You" that's all that matters..

of course but i was referring to the ability to drive the he-6

Quote:

Originally Posted by zibra 

I would guess that most of us doesnt listen to higher than 100-105 dB. 110dB should be waaaay enough for 95% of music. Im almost convinced that people talking about monsters to drive headphones are:

 

a) Not educated what amount of power and voltage HP need for very reasonable level of listening to most of records and how it works,

 

b) Flat presentation of HP force you too listen louder, Maybe?

 

c) Speakers amps are cheaper than efficient headphone amps. Some headfiers stated it BUT I just see people are buying very costly monsters also, so that point is debatable.

 

d) Cheap speakers amp give you couloured, full, rounded... (type what you want) sound which some may find as better sound at certain volume level.

 

e) People like to have nice looking monsters at home :D

 

Maybe some of that above statments are weird, strange, not true etc. Its just my point of view.

There's a lot of truth to a lot of that, though there's a few points to keep in mind.  Those power ratings are RMS, not peak requirements.  Planars are linear but we still need enough spare current and the ability to swing the voltage on a dime.  Meaning just meeing the RMS rating does not mean you have all the required power for quick swings and peak draw.  Yeah, IMO Mjolnir should still be enough to power HE-6, but I think a lot of people confuse power with gain too.  HE-400 puts the Mjolnir at about 60% on the volume knob.  HE-6 draws a lot more current than HE-400, but doesn't always need double the voltage. In that comparison Lyr actually is much lower gain (and much more noisy.  Lyr volume at about 25% is much too loud for HE-400, but HE-400 needs 60% on Mjolnir, the far more powerful amp, but has far lower gain. My 140wpc power amp has far more volume play than my 50wpc integrated with HE-6.  50-60% is the normal listening range.  The 50wpc amp had 0-15%.  Sometimes the huge current rating, when at low gain, is more about response time and reserves for quick swings than RMS output.

Combined with the impedance I'm using much more of the available volume for my HE-6 than for my speakers.  Is it drawing the same current?  Heck no.  But it's a lot higher impedance.

The other factor is the distortion at a given output level on an amp.  All but a very small handful of very expensive headphone amps are going to need to be pushed near the peak of their output for HE-6.  And a good many amps tend to have elevated distortion values in that range.  We're not talking Mjolnir/Headamp/Dark Star etc class amps here but most single ended amps fall into that category.  You'll hear the words "the power curve" often, which generally means the optimum range on the amp where it provides the lowest distortion and the most even response. 

And yes, it depends on recording.  Some of those quiet classical recordings I need to set my volume up to almost 70% if they don't use the full peak of the DR, but do use the low floor.  Remember max current for the RMS rating is relating to 0dB FS.  So if you have a recording that isn't recorded up to 0dB, only has peaks at -40dB, and the bulk of the music is at -60dB, you're going to be applying a lot more gain to that signal (higher volume setting) than a CD recorded up at the wall.  A.K.A. "the loudness war."  That doesn't mean you're using more current, but you're using more voltage gain and thus may have some surprising peaks in there as well.

We were talking in the HD800 thread the other day about amps.  HD800 requires very good quality of amplification, but not much power.  HE-6 also requires very good quality amplification, but also uses a lot of power.  While HD800 will sound ok but not at its potential on a so-so amp, power never factors into the equation, HE-6 will sound dismal without enough power and peak reserves, but benefits no less from quality than HD800 does.  Thus buying speaker amps guarantees sufficient power and swing reserve for HE-6, but getting a better speaker amp has all the same improvements you'd expect from any amp performance upgrade.  Thus HE-6 is much pickier about amps than HD800, but thankfully due to being more mass market there's a lot of affordable options to pick from.  Getting both power and performance from a dedicated headphone amp, most of which are optimized for performance below 1W of output, often far below, limits you to half a dozen amps at best. Mjolnir is one of the cheapest by multiples of 2-5x of the dedicated headphone amps that can actually handle it, and still not up to full peak output.  But, then, Mjolnir is more of a preamp with headphone outputs than a headphone amp   Few headamps have that kind of power, and fewer still have substantially more. 

Thats why its also high quality of amp desired. because of distortion added on higher volumes. Its important for both headphone and speaker amps.

I use HE5LE but my friend has HE6 on the same amp. It can give 8V RMS so peak to peak is about 22V? I was testing Hifimans from speaker taps of tube amps, friend tested HE6 from Onkyo receivers and Leben CS300. We both prefer our amp. I listen to HE5LE on 11 oclok and hes listening to HE6 at 14 oclock from 7-17 scale? Distortion free. After such tests I really cant find logic in amping Hifimans by enormous machines.

Dont get me wrong - im not telling one and only truth - just show there could be other side of medal.

If you mention about amp power and quality Im not sure all those cheap speaker amps fit that second statement...and circle is closed:P

Quote:

Originally Posted by zibra 

Thats why its also high quality of amp desired. because of distortion added on higher volumes. Its important for both headphone and speaker amps.

I use HE5LE but my friend has HE6 on the same amp. It can give 8V RMS so peak to peak is about 22V? I was testing Hifimans from speaker taps of tube amps, friend tested HE6 from Onkyo receivers and Leben CS300. We both prefer our amp. I listen to HE5LE on 11 oclok and hes listening to HE6 at 14 oclock from 7-17 scale? Distortion free. After such tests I really cant find logic in amping Hifimans by enormous machines.

Dont get me wrong - im not telling one and only truth - just show there could be other side of medal.

If you mention about amp power and quality Im not sure all those cheap speaker amps fit that second statement...and circle is closed:P

It's called  "Synergy"

Its called "youthinksountilyouheardbetter"
 

I can plug HD800 to very cheap lushsounding tubeamp and callit synergy too ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by zibra 

Thats why its also high quality of amp desired. because of distortion added on higher volumes. Its important for both headphone and speaker amps.

I use HE5LE but my friend has HE6 on the same amp. It can give 8V RMS so peak to peak is about 22V? I was testing Hifimans from speaker taps of tube amps, friend tested HE6 from Onkyo receivers and Leben CS300. We both prefer our amp. I listen to HE5LE on 11 oclok and hes listening to HE6 at 14 oclock from 7-17 scale? Distortion free. After such tests I really cant find logic in amping Hifimans by enormous machines.

Dont get me wrong - im not telling one and only truth - just show there could be other side of medal.

If you mention about amp power and quality Im not sure all those cheap speaker amps fit that second statement...and circle is closed:P

They certainly do not.  And that's why there are some headphone amps that while not delivering the full power can sound better than some of the cheap receivers (Dark Star for example.)  But it's also true that the quality plus the power is better yet.  Thus why those of us using speaker amps aren't all using cheap vintage receivers, but rather power amps, pres, and integrateds ranging a combined $750-10k (in Elysians case )  And the beauty is good quality high power speaker amps can often be had for less money than a Dark Star. 

Unless its DIY and you know what you are doing

Quote:

Originally Posted by zibra 

Its called "youthinksountilyouheardbetter"
 

I can plug HD800 to very cheap lushsounding tubeamp and callit synergy too ;)

It's called that to..

Yep, you sure can...   Who said a cheap tube amp can't have synergy with HD800s?

Because its called "youthinkso".... It could tame highs make sound much fuller, great for ears but there are so many weak areas I  wouldnt bother buying such expensive HP. Dont you think? Just buy CAL and be happy then:)