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HifiMAN HE-6 Planar Magnetic Headphone - Page 453

post #6781 of 14384

I still dont get that hype for getting speaker taps for Hifiman headphones. Can you tell any objective reason for doing this?

Another ******** is that big, complicated circuit is advantage vs smaller one. Im using such headamp now with HE5LE and my friend has it with HE6. Its made by known headfier michelangelo who has a lot of knowledge how to correctly implement circuit and whats important:

 

http://highfidelity.pl/@main-320&lang=en

 

Have a look at interior - you think its worse because no PCB at full box, audiophile capacitors etc.? I wish you could hear it then.

I also wrote topic at diyaudio.com looking for best amp for such planars. Reasonable comments and pure math how much power we need for Hifimans (HE5LE in that topic):

 

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/headphone-systems/221016-best-headamp-hifiman-planars.html

post #6782 of 14384

Hype? I doubt anybody wants/wanted to use a huge speaker amp for these-it's just that many many Headfiers have found their best sonic results with the HE6 through speaker taps-specs aside. There's also the convenience of speaker amp owners already having a potentially great HE6 amp on hand-saving space and money from getting another headphone amp that would more than likely not bring the Hifiman to it's potential. Pretty much all there is to it imo.

 

If I still owned speakers/amp-I would definitely try the HE6 again.

 

-Daniel

post #6783 of 14384

I could agree with that statement but I see many comments that no matter what kind of amplifier you connect its always better than headamp. Im waiting to hear that you get best rssults with 5.1 amplifier.

post #6784 of 14384

It's simply a matter of power-and only a few dedicated headphone amps seem to have the power that can bring the HE6 to their potential, it seems. And I'm sure a 5.1 amp could give stellar results too-seeing how it would probably work just fine and have more power as well in a stereo configuration. wink_face.gif

 

-Daniel

post #6785 of 14384

I think its absolutely not only matter of power. My friend tried HE6 with 5.1 amplifier with other amplifier and also with Leben - both headphone and speakers outputs.. He didnt like it at all describing his feelings rather as much different, tuned signature which has nothing to do with natural and realistic sound. I really believe thta if you have well implemented circuit with enough power to drive HP (see math at diyaudio for HE5LE) with very low distortion and low impedance output its enough and much better than searching substitute.

Its only my opinion after debating about it for long time and I respect different point of wiev - I just think its not right to make statement that only power is important in that case.

post #6786 of 14384
I mean it's simply more power that is driving Headfiers to look into speaker amps for th HE6 in the first place-not to suggest all speaker amps have the same sound sig obviously. Also, the Lebens are known around here as one of the tubiest sounding amps, and as such can be a very highly subjective pick.

-Daniel
post #6787 of 14384
Quote:
Originally Posted by zibra View Post

I think its absolutely not only matter of power. My friend tried HE6 with 5.1 amplifier with other amplifier and also with Leben - both headphone and speakers outputs.. He didnt like it at all describing his feelings rather as much different, tuned signature which has nothing to do with natural and realistic sound. I really believe thta if you have well implemented circuit with enough power to drive HP (see math at diyaudio for HE5LE) with very low distortion and low impedance output its enough and much better than searching substitute.

Its only my opinion after debating about it for long time and I respect different point of wiev - I just think its not right to make statement that only power is important in that case.

 

I think bringing an amp designer into the discussion would be sensible.  On the whole I agree with you.  The focus on power is widely overstated for HE-6.  yeah, it takes a lot of power.  And after just upgrading to a 140wpc power amp from a 45wpc power amp that actually is QUIETER at a given volume setting on the pre than the 45wpc one, and given the specs on the amp and DAC/Pre should not be as quiet as it is indicates that the sensitivity specs on the HE-6 are vastly inflated from reality.  They're far less sensitive than the spec would make them seem.  However, that aside, for normal listening volume the speaker equivalent of 40wpc or less should certainly be enough. 

 

What I think it mostly comes down to isn't so much about power but simply that HE-6 can take a lot of power.  And there are a lot more speaker amp options than headphone amp options, and many of those can take advantage of vastly larger scales of economy in mass production and general sales, and as a result, it seems common to be able to get a much better amp for less money as a speaker amp than as a headphone amp.  I also think the overall larger transformers in speaker amps give much greater DC current reserves to draw from, while headphone amps tend to be depleted much sooner.  But the bigger, usually balanced headphone amps are, effectively, low-power speaker amps sold toward headphone people. That would be Mjolnir, Dark Star, etc.  Which happens to be the ones that are rated to work well with HE-6 as well.  But if you can get top quality sound for under $1k with a speaker amp, why spend $2k for a headphone amp? :)

post #6788 of 14384

HE6 its hiend headphones for people who usually know what theyre buying and what SQ they want achieve with it. I dont really care is it economical point of wiev getting "cheaper" amp for or its just enough for someone to have hiend HP and be satisfied. Im happy if anyone found that as end of road.

I dont want also to be some kind of advertiser in that topic as mentioned amp could have even more power for HE6  but I feel its enough for HE5LE. If there are other headamps mentioned in this topic I would also show alternative solutions because I find that constructor very inteligent and experienced at audio facility. I really dont care if youre interested in that headamp but in the other hand I know its worth to mention because its that good generally.

I just find discussion onesided - for speakers amps favor in overall SQ - you never know if its all potential till you wont hear anything better.

 

BTW constructor is majkel here, not michelangelo:) Here some thoughts from him:

 

http://earstream.eu/page/65/Zasilacze/l/en


Edited by zibra - 10/9/12 at 12:22pm
post #6789 of 14384
Quote:
Originally Posted by zibra View Post

HE6 its hiend headphones for people who usually know what theyre buying and what SQ they want achieve with it. I dont really care is it economical point of wiev getting "cheaper" amp for or its just enough for someone to have hiend HP and be satisfied. Im happy if anyone found that as end of road.

I dont want also to be some kind of advertiser in that topic as mentioned amp could have even more power for HE6  but I feel its enough for HE5LE. If there are other headamps mentioned in this topic I would also show alternative solutions because I find that constructor very inteligent and experienced at audio facility. I really dont care if youre interested in that headamp but in the other hand I know its worth to mention because its that good generally.

I just find discussion onesided - for speakers amps favor in overall SQ - you never know if its all potential till you wont hear anything better.

 

BTW constructor is majkel here, not michelangelo:) Here some thoughts from him:

 

http://earstream.eu/page/65/Zasilacze/l/en

 

I agree about something of a one-sided argument but the fact remans that overall there are very few headphone amps that provide the power HE-6 needs.  There are a handful....but that's it.  And then the question is: although these headphone amps in the $1-2k range have the power to drive HE-6, their costs are high due to the niche sales of their products.  Can an even superior (performance, not power) amp be found for a lower price point in a speaker amp simply because there are greater options and sales in that market?  As good as Dark Star may be, it's expensive, and those who compared DS with some speaker amps preferred the HE-6 on speaker amps.  Is the reason because the speaker amp is more powerful?  You can only use so much power.  More likely it's simply because the speaker amp in comparison is simply a better performer, and the larger transformers likely give it an edge in speed.  Never forget the diminishing returns in small manufacturing.  While DIY may be one thing, for a polished product, what Yamaha can churn out of their 30 year old automated factory for $400 might cost $1200 for a small workshop to produce from off the shelf parts. And there are no mass produced automated headphone amp factories in the high end category.

 

So you are very much right, on paper, there's no reason one of the more powerful headphone amps can't power it.  In reality it's just that it's a losing value proposition with minimal selection available to try.  And when headphone amps move into that kind of power, they could easily drive 10-20W into 8ohms....which means they're speaker amps sold to headphone buyers and happen to have no speaker binding posts on them...they are speaker amps in a different package.  EF-6 for example...made for HE-6.  It's a speaker amp at its core, it's just not sold that way and has no binding posts.  As Rob pointed out, the chassis even had space for binding posts and was plugged.

 

Remember the HE-6 is rated to take 8W @ 50ohm.   A 45wpc speaker amp means 45wpc @ 8ohm.  @50ohm we're talking....what....~9W?  The speaker amps aren't as overpowered as they sound when you compensate for the listed  impedance rating for speakers. Prepro's 300w monoblocks on the other hand...yeah, that's kind of overkill....but he borrowed those from his HT temporarily.


Edited by IEMCrazy - 10/9/12 at 12:34pm
post #6790 of 14384

Yeah I know how what you mean and whats that ratio of speakers amps when we get 50ohm HP to be powered. Your argumentation is OK. IMO just some opinions arent really based on any strong facts whats is the more important thing here. Amp is just a toy which should make stronger most clean free of ditortion wide frequency signal providing most possible clean power supply. Its just its definition in my opinion. Not make some colours stronger bass etc.

I believe spekaers amps beside giving enough power also add some of their signature due to their imperfection. And thats what many people like but I dont think its needed on HE6 level.

post #6791 of 14384
Quote:
Originally Posted by IEMCrazy View Post

Prepro's 300w monoblocks on the other hand...yeah, that's kind of overkill....but he borrowed those from his HT temporarily.

 

 

I made a mistake.  They're only 200wpc.  None the less they are borrowed and going back as soon as I can find a suitable replacement.  

 

 

post #6792 of 14384
Quote:
Originally Posted by zibra View Post

I believe spekaers amps beside giving enough power also add some of their signature due to their imperfection. And thats what many people like but I dont think its needed on HE6 level.

 

You think headphone amps don't do this as well?  Every amp you try being it a headphone amp or a speaker amp is going to have it's own sig.  No amp is completely transparent.  

 

That's why you have to try out any amp before you buy (if possible).  I'm on the hunt now for a suitable speaker amp for my 6s.  I'm looking at Nelson Pass,  B24 (Pure Class A), Audio-GDs Master 3 and a few tube amps.  

 

As IEMCrazy said - there's only a few headphone amps out that can properly drive the HE-6 even at that point the HE-6 asks for more.  They scale and have to potential to get better and better as they scale.  I believe there is no headphone amp out that will allow them to scale and get better (maybe the Dark Star, Dynahi and the EF-6).  Not the B22, not the BHA-1, and not the Mjolnir.  They simply don't have enough to allow the HE-6 to scale properly.  They may sound good yes - but they just can't allow the HE-6 to scale.

post #6793 of 14384

Well if you like transparent amp and you would like to find it to deliver enough power for HE6 you should PM majkel na dmaybe youll find solution. I strongly reccomend it if you like such signature. You gve me retoric question which is impossible to answer. Theres no "ideal" sound signature for everyone however I think its possible to find some reference aspects of good headamp without adding for itself, at least adding very little. Or maybe its just hobby which makes us to test a lot of gear without thinking why we change it so often. Seriously, if its so good after hearing so many devices why change it? Maybe it still lacks something...?

post #6794 of 14384
Quote:
Originally Posted by preproman View Post

 

You think headphone amps don't do this as well?  Every amp you try being it a headphone amp or a speaker amp is going to have it's own sig.  No amp is completely transparent.  

 

That's why you have to try out any amp before you buy (if possible).  I'm on the hunt now for a suitable speaker amp for my 6s.  I'm looking at Nelson Pass,  B24 (Pure Class A), Audio-GDs Master 3 and a few tube amps.  

 

As IEMCrazy said - there's only a few headphone amps out that can properly drive the HE-6 even at that point the HE-6 asks for more.  They scale and have to potential to get better and better as they scale.  I believe there is no headphone amp out that will allow them to scale and get better (maybe the Dark Star, Dynahi and the EF-6).  Not the B22, not the BHA-1, and not the Mjolnir.  They simply don't have enough to allow the HE-6 to scale properly.  They may sound good yes - but they just can't allow the HE-6 to scale.


Mjolnir = ~12wpc @ ohm...so yeah, it's lower than EF6 by a notable amount.  Suitable certainly for most listening, but not enough surge for the widest transient swings. Still, it is a low powered speaker amp.

post #6795 of 14384
Quote:
Originally Posted by IEMCrazy View Post


Mjolnir = ~12wpc @ ohm..

 

 

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