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HifiMAN HE-6 Planar Magnetic Headphone - Page 212

post #3166 of 14779

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jian View Post

Below 10hz is not really important IMO.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baird GoW View Post

maybe you have poor hearing, i just used sinegen and could hear 15Hz which is as low as it goes

 

 

We're discussing just above 10 Hz. And who said I was talking about audible frequencies anyways? We all know that subsonic bass is where the viscerality lies. It's all about feeling the vibrations, man.

post #3167 of 14779
Quote:
Originally Posted by grokit View Post

 

 

 

We're discussing just above 10 Hz. And who said I was talking about audible frequencies anyways? We all know that subsonic bass is where the viscerality lies. It's all about feeling the vibrations, man.



Right, indeed.  All good, Grokit.

 

But Baird GoW, my hearing is FINE.  I have had it tested.  I have a subwoofer that is actually, truly capable of reproducing 20 Hz.  I know what it sounds like.  From a headphone, what you "hear" when you play a 15Hz sinewave is the "doubling" effect - distortion products at 2x the frequency, or 30 Hz.  You cannot "hear" 15 Hz.  You *might* be able to "feel" a little bit of pressure on the ears, but that is all.

 

You should not question my hearing unless you are certain you know what you are talking about.  And if you say you can HEAR 15 Hz, you are mistaken, sorry.

post #3168 of 14779

im sorry to be so insistent here, but I sense there are a lot of people on head-fi who have never heard a speaker/subwoofer actually reproduce 20Hz, and if you have not, it is just not possible to understand what a headphone is lacking in the very deep bass.

post #3169 of 14779


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylab View Post


Right, indeed.  All good, Grokit.

 

But Baird GoW, my hearing is FINE.  I have had it tested.  I have a subwoofer that is actually, truly capable of reproducing 20 Hz.  I know what it sounds like.  From a headphone, what you "hear" when you play a 15Hz sinewave is the "doubling" effect - distortion products at 2x the frequency, or 30 Hz.  You cannot "hear" 15 Hz.  You *might* be able to "feel" a little bit of pressure on the ears, but that is all.

 

You should not question my hearing unless you are certain you know what you are talking about.  And if you say you can HEAR 15 Hz, you are mistaken, sorry.


x2.

post #3170 of 14779

Quote:

Originally Posted by grokit View Post
We're discussing just above 10 Hz. And who said I was talking about audible frequencies anyways? We all know that subsonic bass is where the viscerality lies. It's all about feeling the vibrations, man.

I wasn't quoting you, he quoted you which is why your quote was in the same gray box with his...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylab View Post
Right, indeed.  All good, Grokit.

 

But Baird GoW, my hearing is FINE.  I have had it tested.  I have a subwoofer that is actually, truly capable of reproducing 20 Hz.  I know what it sounds like.  From a headphone, what you "hear" when you play a 15Hz sinewave is the "doubling" effect - distortion products at 2x the frequency, or 30 Hz.  You cannot "hear" 15 Hz.  You *might* be able to "feel" a little bit of pressure on the ears, but that is all.

 

You should not question my hearing unless you are certain you know what you are talking about.  And if you say you can HEAR 15 Hz, you are mistaken, sorry.

I said maybe you have poor hearing first of all. Secondly I know my truth, I could clearly hear it, it was not just some pressure...

 

post #3171 of 14779

People can believe whatever they want.  But there is almost no musical content below 20 Hz.  The very few largest pipe organs have a 16 Hz fundamental stop.  And of course some synthesizers can be made to reproduce anything you want.  But regardless of what anyone may want to believe, when you play a 15 Hz sine wave through headphones, you cannot "hear" the fundamental.  You may hear distortion products.  You may hear buzzing or rattling.  You may hear sidetones or doubling.  But you cannot "hear" the fundamental, beyond PERHAPS feeling a very slight pressure in the ear.

 

Note also that any 44.1 kHz sampled WAV, FLAC, or MP3 has no content below 20 Hz.  None, zero.

 

Anyway, enough on this topic - trying to separate the myth from the facts, but back to the HE-6...


Edited by Skylab - 3/8/11 at 10:57am
post #3172 of 14779

When I was saying the HE6 had less bass extension than the HD800 I wasn't at all talking about anything near the 10 Hz range.  My hearing generally begins at about 25 to 30 Hz and I feel that in the 20-40 Hz range the HD800 has just a smidgen more impact.  I don't believe human ears can hear anything below 20 Hz, the vibration is too slow at this point, but you can feel it if the sound is powerful enough, usually only through speakers though. 

 

I also think it can be easy to forget how much of the audio spectrum happens between 20 Hz to 50Hz.  That's a huge chunk of sound right there, 1.5 times the audio information that happens between 10 Khz and 20 Khz.  


Edited by DavidMahler - 3/8/11 at 11:26am
post #3173 of 14779
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidMahler View Post

I also think it can be easy to forget how much of the audio spectrum happens between 20 Hz to 50Hz.  That's a huge chunk of sound right there, 1.5 times the audio information that happens between 10 Khz and 20 Khz. 


that bottom octave of 20-40hz tends to have little, if any, information on most commercial recordings. Dave, iirc you play bass. with standard tuning isn't the lowest note @43hz? and isn't most of the music that you play actually commonly well above that frequency, and often up onto the 3rd audible octave (80-160hz)?

 

post #3174 of 14779
Quote:
Originally Posted by daveDerek View Post


that bottom octave of 20-40hz tends to have little, if any, information on most commercial recordings. Dave, iirc you play bass. with standard tuning isn't the lowest note @43hz? and isn't most of the music that you play actually commonly well above that frequency, and often up onto the 3rd audible octave (80-160hz)?

 


There are undertones which give music character even when it's not an official note.  When I do mastering, one of the main things I do is assess the sound quality in the 25-35 Hz range to see if there's anything going on there.  If there isn't the mastering can often sound brittle or thin.  But sometimes there's nothing you can do about it.  There are definitely lower frequencies present in instruments even if the lowest actual note is above 40 hz, sometimes just the percussive thump of the string can have frequencies beneath it, but this depends on a lot of factors.

 

When I listen to a lot of remasters, I hear very often what sounds like a low frequency cut at about 30 to 40 hz.  I hear this very often on Steely Dan's 70s recordings. I'm not sure why they do this, but maybe what I'm hearing is just an extreme use of a multiband limiter in that region and not an actual cut.


Edited by DavidMahler - 3/8/11 at 12:35pm
post #3175 of 14779
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidMahler View Post

When I listen to a lot of remasters, I hear very often what sounds like a low frequency cut at about 30 to 40 hz.  I hear this very often on Steely Dan's 70s recordings. I'm not sure why they do this, but maybe what I'm hearing is just an extreme use of a multiband limiter in that region and not an actual cut.


What I recall hearing was that vinyl recordings were mastered with a rolloff somewhere below 40hz, on the premise that it was in the same range as tonearm resonance and could lead to added noise and needle skips if the bass was loud and abrupt. If that was true (you probably know better than I do), I don't know why the low frequency would remain cut off on digital recordings, unless they only had the vinyl masters to work from.

post #3176 of 14779

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ardgedee View Post


What I recall hearing was that vinyl recordings were mastered with a rolloff somewhere below 40hz, on the premise that it was in the same range as tonearm resonance and could lead to added noise and needle skips if the bass was loud and abrupt. If that was true (you probably know better than I do), I don't know why the low frequency would remain cut off on digital recordings, unless they only had the vinyl masters to work from.


Reminds me of the "rumble filters" that used to be quite commonplace on turntable-ready receivers and preamps, and still are on many phono stages.

 

post #3177 of 14779

Ironically, both my subwoofers have a 25 Hz "boost" switch biggrin.gif

post #3178 of 14779

You won't hear the 16~ test tone but you feel it. The sub is jumping out of the cabinet. 

 

Interesting that there are sub/high sonic energies that shape our sensory memory when experiencing live events that, when produced to media, looses it's "live" feel.


Edited by Happy Camper - 3/8/11 at 8:36pm
post #3179 of 14779
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Camper View Post

You won't hear the 16~ test tone but you feel it. The sub is jumping out of the cabinet. 

 

 


Right - from a subwoofer, or speaker that can reproduce it, you feel it. 

 

post #3180 of 14779

Yes sir.

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