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HifiMAN HE-6 Planar Magnetic Headphone - Page 696

post #10426 of 14887
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mambosenior View Post

It's been my experience that fencing with the non-speaker amp folks is just a waste of time, considering the overwhelming testimonials for the use of quality speaker amps...with most headphones, not just the HE-6 or HE-5LE.

I use, or have used, speaker amps for HD-800, HD 600, AKG 702 and 712, Beyer DT660, DT880, T1 (tubes), exclusively for over a year with STELLAR results. (Read the Speaker Amp thread if you're interested.)

Please, anyone with the "you'll blow your headphone hysteria"-- get real!

You're in good company, until the 16th century the vast majority of people, including the contemporary 'specialists' believed in geocentrism.  Majority opinions are like any other opinion:  they mean diddly squat unless supported by evidence.  I wonder how many people would be able to differentiate one way or another between a HE-6 powered by a good (powerful) headphone amp or über powerful speaker amps in a double blind auditioning session.  Reminds me of the cables argument, that didn't fare too well under controlled test circumstances either.  

 

Mind, I'm not stating that the HE-6 won't perform well with speaker amps, only that I see no evidence of why it wouldn't fare equally well with a sufficiently powerful headphone amp system.  And speaking only for myself, I think that my DAC, headphone amp and headphone already take up enough real estate.


Edited by Xenophon - 11/18/13 at 2:36pm
post #10427 of 14887

^ You bring exactly nothing to the table by cherry-picking what Mambosenior said. All he's saying is that good speaker amps do a damn good job. He's not comparing anything -you are. Here's something to compare for you. "High-power" headphone amps cost vs. speaker amps of equal power. Speaker amps 'double' in use for a Head-Fi'er that they also drive speakers.

 

Please end this ABX discussion in what has been clearly stated as a violation in the Head-Fi agreements.

 

Nothing personal, just don't misinterpret somebody and discredit them with above testing methodologies that are a violation in this forum area.

post #10428 of 14887

:wink: I'm rather delighted at my speaker amps doin' double-duty between speakers, headphones and HE-6 mini-speakers. Didn't cost anything extra.

post #10429 of 14887
+1 silent one. This is not about being a purist , it's just about the sound ....

Al D
post #10430 of 14887
Copy paste from speaker amp sections .. If you take the time to read this even if you do not understand it all. It will explain why the speaker amps we try do not always work and fail more often then work.


Operakid

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174 Posts. Joined 12/2012
What a complex subject impedance matching can be. Given the reasonably low frequencies we are at in audio we don't suffer from partial wave wave reflections and standing waves in the cables since wavelengths are so long. But, we still should strive for a goal impedance that satisfies the needs of the source and load devices.

The resistor in parallel with the outputs of the amps is for allowing us to use an amp comfortable with a speaker load into a much higher impedance load (headphones). Since most amps are very happy with an 8 ohm load, something around 8 ohms would let the amp see its desired load and prevent any oscillations due to the high load impedance (cans). For efficient headphones like the HD800 5 to 10 watt resistors should be safe.

As far as throwing away power with the parallel and load resistors, this is a fact of life. However, the power waste is very minimal with efficient headphones. for example, I am using the same volume setting that I use with my 100 db efficient speakers, That means that at 85db I am using between 1/16 and 1/32 watt total average steady state power out of my amp. Instant impactful peaks might be using a watt. That's one of the beauties of using a speaker amp: even a 5 watt SET has lots of headroom into efficient headphones.

Now we have a reality that the speaker amp will likely have more gain than would be practical for use with high efficiency headphones such as the HD800. To be in a useful volume range with the preamp and to prevent blowing the headphones we can load the + line going to the headphones with a series resistor. I started with the standard load (though many headphone jacks don't totally follow this load) of 120 ohms (I believed this is the value, no need to be exact). For the HD800, being so efficient, a 1 to 2 watt resistor should be safe.

Be aware that bridged amps and dual mono amps may destruct themselves hooking up a common ground set of headphones with a resistor network. Common ground would be a wire set that terminates in a headphone plug. The plus and minus headphone grounds are connected at this plug. There may be other amp designs, other than bridged and mono, that would destruct also. A good check would be to check the resistance between the 2 negative speaker connectors of your amp without anything plugged into the amp. If they are shorted together (very low resistance) then you are safe with the common ground load of the headphones. If not, you better have a balanced cable set where each channel of the headphone has a separate ground.

When using common ground headphone cables with an amplifier that has common ground outputs I run ground to the headphone connector ground from only one channel of the resistor network. This brings ground together in the jack anyway, but doing it this way prevents any parallel resistors in the network (i.e., resistors going from + to -) from introducing quite a bit more crosstalk between left and right channels.. .

Caution! Disclaimer!

Hooking up the described setup could blow your amp and/or headphones if a wrong connection is made.

Hooking up the described setup could blow your amp and/or headphones if the amplifier does not like its ground terminals to be connected. Check with your amplifier manufacturer to be safe.

If you are not sure of what you are doing do not do it. I'm not suggesting that anyone hook up their speaker amps to drive the headphones. I am relating what is working for me.

I also am not suggesting that folks should not buy headphone amps. I don't need to be an enemy of those makers. In my case, I already had perfectionist amps and preamps, some costing $40k each. In that situation it only made sense to try to utilize them. And it is no criticism of a $2k ore $5k headpone amp that a $20k or $30k or $60k amp and preamp set might outperform it.
post #10431 of 14887
Quote:
Originally Posted by brunk View Post
 

^ You bring exactly nothing to the table by cherry-picking what Mambosenior said. All he's saying is that good speaker amps do a damn good job. He's not comparing anything -you are. Here's something to compare for you. "High-power" headphone amps cost vs. speaker amps of equal power. Speaker amps 'double' in use for a Head-Fi'er that they also drive speakers.

 

Please end this ABX discussion in what has been clearly stated as a violation in the Head-Fi agreements.

 

Nothing personal, just don't misinterpret somebody and discredit them with above testing methodologies that are a violation in this forum area.

 

:beerchug:

post #10432 of 14887
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silent One View Post

wink.gif  I'm rather delighted at my speaker amps doin' double-duty between speakers, headphones and HE-6 mini-speakers. Didn't cost anything extra.
This is the winner. The point made several hundred pages back is that if you already have a speaker amp, the HE-6 can be ran from it. Why pay several thousand dollars for an amp that don't bring anything to the table but driving a headphone. The ones raising so much trouble are usually headphone amp fans taking pot shots at speaker amps being massively overkill. 300 watt monoblock crock to hype the point. You don't need 300 watt monoblocks, but can be used.

Prepro and I were able to hear the 6s on the Beta, GSX, Burson, Schiit, Singlepower, Bryston, etc. and preferred speaker amps. Can you find a headphone amp to do the job? Sure. Do you need to spend a couple grand if you have a couple hundred dollar speaker amp available? Hell no.
post #10433 of 14887
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Camper View Post


This is the winner. The point made several hundred pages back is that if you already have a speaker amp, the HE-6 can be ran from it. Why pay several thousand dollars for an amp that don't bring anything to the table but driving a headphone. The ones raising so much trouble are usually headphone amp fans taking pot shots at speaker amps being massively overkill. 300 watt monoblock crock to hype the point. You don't need 300 watt monoblocks, but can be used.

Prepro and I were able to hear the 6s on the Beta, GSX, Burson, Schiit, Singlepower, Bryston, etc. and preferred speaker amps. Can you find a headphone amp to do the job? Sure. Do you need to spend a couple grand if you have a couple hundred dollar speaker amp available? Hell no.

That's worth repeating. I have found very similar results as the two of you. This should be at the beginning of the thread lol.

post #10434 of 14887

I had a WA6 SE which was such a beautiful amp with the Grado's (I still miss the glow)

 

Every single speaker amp beat it with the HE-6 (Pioneer A300R, Denson B100, Exposure XXV and Primare)

post #10435 of 14887
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarsHP View Post
 


Nelson Pass told me this (about 1W in 50 Ohm) when I asked in a email. How du you get your 6.5W in 50 Ohm for the F1J?

 

Goodness you folks have been busy while I've been away at work!

 

So, back to the topic of the F1(J) for a bit.

 

I, too, had an email exchange with Mr. Pass, discussing the HE-6 and the F1 (mine is not the J variant).  I posited a question about the F1 maximum output voltage when driving a 50 ohm load.  I noted that my particular example is only able to achieve 15 V peak, not the 20 V peak spec'ed in the manual.  His reply was that the F1 required optimal conditions, including full line voltage, to achieve the 20 V peak spec in the manual, but there was nothing wrong with driving a 50 (or 61 ohm) load with the F1.

 

So, lets do a little math.  If I have a 10 W amp that normally drives an 8 ohm load and I use the ratiometric relationship:

P@50= P@8 * R(speaker)/R(headphone)

P@50 = 10 * 8/50

P@50 = 1.6 Watts.  OK, that's about 1 W at 50 ohms.

 

Now, lets look at ohms law.  Define terms:  V = voltage, R = resistance, I = current

V = I * R  and P = V * I  and also P = I^2 * R

 

Now, if I do a little algebra, I find that power can also be expressed in terms of voltage and resistance:

P = V^2 / R  or V = SQRT(P * R)

 

Now, plug in some numbers from the F1

V = SQRT(10 * 8)

V = 8.94 V

Now, lets assume that is an RMS power spec, then that becomes 12.64 V peak. (8.94 V * SQRT(2) )

 

So, about 12.6 volts peak is required to drive an 8 ohm load at 10 W (at 1.26 A peak, by the way.  The F1 is actually rated at 2.5 A peak).  Taking that one step further, we see that 10 W RMS is equal to 20 W peak.

 

Its worth belaboring the point that the 12.6 V peak is the peak of a sine wave.  NOT a musical passage!

 

Per my measurements of an F1 loaded with a pair of HE-6 headphones (61 ohms by the way), I don't go into clipping until 15 V.

 

So, if I plug my measured voltage into the equation above:

P = 15^2 / 61 = 3.69 Watts

So, I measured 3.69 Watts peak into the HE-6.  

 

If I do the same calculation using F1 max spec of 20 V and the HE-6 spec impedance of 50 ohms you get:

P = 20^2 /50  = 8 watts peak.

 

Of course, now we have to look at distortion.  In order to do that, one has to have good data about how the amplifier behaves with various loads.  You can look at a distortion curve for an 8 ohm load, but you can't say anything about how that amplifier will behave with a 50 ohm load.  Simply not enough information.

 

Well, hope I didn't bore you all....  Too much 

 

Bottom line:  GO TRY IT!  :)

post #10436 of 14887

:biggrin:

post #10437 of 14887

 

middle of road...T-amps :P

post #10438 of 14887
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorspeaker View Post
 

 

middle of road...T-amps :P

Hehe, yep! Folks, if you're looking to get into Summit-Fi rigs there is no better value than a used HE-6 and T-amp. Very wise Lorspeaker!

 

As a side note, have you tried battery power for that T-amp? That could be one shocker of a transportable rig.

post #10439 of 14887

oooooh....u have one to recommend, how many hours do these batterypacks last? 

gonna bring my he6 to starbucks n sit beside that guy with the BEATS..lol.

 

 

 

 


Product Description: SMSL SA-50

 

Features: 1¡¤Real 2 * 50W Stereo circuit design; 2¡¤The internal parallel the fever Philips 6600uf filter capacitor (reservoir) to meet the power needs of bursting, voice switching power supply side to solve delicate problems; 3¡¤thereby achieving high-level / all original parts manufacturing; 4¡¤advanced oxidation process grain pull aluminum shell; 5¡¤Delta OEM DC24V 4.5A (108W) power supply, over-current point 6A.

Edited by Lorspeaker - 11/18/13 at 9:37pm
post #10440 of 14887
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorspeaker View Post
 

oooooh....u have one to recommend, how many hours do these batterypacks last? 

gonna bring my he6 to starbucks n sit beside that guy with the BEATS..lol.

Yeah that Beats guy will be dumbfounded if he gets a listen lol! Anyways, I recommend you post your query in the speaker amps for headphones thread and address Zilch0md specifically. He's the resident guru in regards to batteries for amps and such. Very knowledgeable guy! See you there :)


Edited by brunk - 11/18/13 at 9:48pm
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