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HifiMAN HE-6 Planar Magnetic Headphone - Page 694

post #10396 of 13022
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarsHP View Post

The F1J only puts about 1 Watt max in 50 Ohms, voltage limited. I got this from the maestro himself. According to Ohms law the impedance will determine how much current will be drawn, and 50 Ohm is not a nasty load that calls for a speaker amp.
So this - again - tells me that wattage / ampere is not the primary concern with HE-6.

However, the F1J is supposedly a very clear and transparent amp, but as I said, according to Nelson Pass it's not delivering more than about 1W and thus not more than many high powered headphone amps - actually much less. My Soloist, which has been doubted by some regarding the HE-6 is at about 1.7W, then yields considerably more than the F1J, not to mention my Audio-gd Master 6 which is 7W in 50 Ohms.

What this is more likely about is that the HE-6 has slightly too much treble (and with velour pads also less low end than with stock pleather). Especially the velour pads may give you the impression that it needs more power / current, but in fact it's the frequency response with these pads which is the issue. With pleather pads it's better, but there is still a little too much treble. This can't be fixed with extra power / current IMO. However, it can be fixed with other pads or felt or whatever it takes to absorb some of the excess treble. And subjectively, if you turn up the volume, you experience more low end also which will sound more balanced and you experience more details too.

 

Paying to much attention to the Watts again.:blink:  Also Potterma has a different calculation.  

 

Anyways, again, in my experience it's more about the current reserve a amp can maintain.  Speaker amps with the size of their transformers are able to keep more current in reserve when compared to headphone amps.  Yes, some headphone amps can put out mega watts - so what?  They don't have the (current) sustainability that speaker amps have when really complicated music passages calls for it - headphone amps tend to run out of gas - so to speak .  The headphone amps transformers are way to small, some of them even use r-core / c-core transformers.  The transformers in speaker amps are the size of the entire headphone amp at times.  Headphone amps are meant to be designed for a small foot print (most of them) this limits them with the size transformers they are able to use.  Speaker amps don't have this issue.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by songmic View Post
 

I don't know if this has been discussed before, but I think one of HE-6's greatest faults is its screw-in connectors. This has got to be the worst type of connector I've seen in any $1K+ headphones with detachable cables. The problem is that need I screw the rotatable portion of the connector into the headphone, but since it's so small it's difficult for me to screw it with my fingers all the way. It's difficult for me to apply enough force into it, so it's nearly impossible to screw it all the way (thus ensuring a secure, tight connection) with my bare fingers only. The connector still feels somewhat wobbly, and turns around a little too.

 

Is there a solution to this problem? Perhaps a tool that I can use to screw it all the way (without damaging the headphone or the connectors, hopefully), or a smart method to get it done without a specific tool?

 

Yes - Get them Hardwired.

post #10397 of 13022
Quote:
Originally Posted by NZtechfreak View Post

Budget TBD, but as I said, I'm all in here, so the budget will extend to at least $4K USD I suppose.

Good point about the hifi stores, will need to arrange some cabling terminated in speaker tap connectors...

 

A 4K budget really opens you up to a lot of choices.  Local audio stores are the first place to start.  They I highly recommend dealing with:

 

http://www.renohifi.com/Instocklist.htm 

post #10398 of 13022

I just looked at the spec of my amp is +/- 40A enough :wink_face:

post #10399 of 13022
Quote:
Originally Posted by preproman View Post
 

 

Paying to much attention to the Watts again.:blink:  Also Potterma has a different calculation.  

 

Anyways, again, in my experience it's more about the current reserve a amp can maintain.  Speaker amps with the size of their transformers are able to keep more current in reserve when compared to headphone amps.  Yes, some headphone amps can put out mega watts - so what?  They don't have the (current) sustainability that speaker amps have when really complicated music passages calls for it - headphone amps tend to run out of gas - so to speak .  The headphone amps transformers are way to small, some of them even use r-core / c-core transformers.  The transformers in speaker amps are the size of the entire headphone amp at times.  Headphone amps are meant to be designed for a small foot print (most of them) this limits them with the size transformers they are able to use.  Speaker amps don't have this issue.

 

 

Yes - Get them Hardwired.

 

I was hoping for a reversible solution... as good as a cable upgrade may be, I think hard-wiring a cable decreases the potential re-sale value of an expensive headphone. Which is why I never got to recable my TH900 in any way.

post #10400 of 13022
Quote:
Originally Posted by songmic View Post
 

 

I was hoping for a reversible solution... as good as a cable upgrade may be, I think hard-wiring a cable decreases the potential re-sale value of an expensive headphone. Which is why I never got to recable my TH900 in any way.

 

Ha - you would be surprised.  Ha ha ha,,  I thought so at first as well.  You have no idea how many people jumped at all my re cabled (Hardwired) headphones. This included  the TH900, HD800 (Hardwired), HE-500, HE-4, HE-5LE All Hardwired.  Pretty much every headphone I've had - I got them re cabled and hardwired when I could.  Even the AKG: K702 65th Anniversary Edition sold in less than a day.  Of course the LCDs are not able to be hardwired.  I still get offers for my HE-6 to the day.  

 

Just saying..


Edited by preproman - 11/18/13 at 5:23am
post #10401 of 13022
Quote:
Originally Posted by preproman View Post
 

 

Ha - you would be surprised.  Ha ha ha,,  I thought so at first as well.  You have no idea how many people jumped at all my re cabled (Hardwired) headphones. This included  the TH900, HD800 (Hardwired), HE-500, HE-4, HE-5LE All Hardwired.  Pretty much every headphone I've had - I got them re cabled and hardwired when I could.  Even the AKG: K702 65th Anniversary Edition sold in less than a day.  Of course the LCDs are not able to be hardwired.  I still get offers for my HE-6 to the day.  

 

Just saying..

 

Well, I already received my aftermarket HE-6 cable, so I suppose it's a little too late for that. ;)

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/920469_544118165673225_1310499824_o.jpg

 

*

 

Peter suggested I could use a plier to screw them all the way, but I honestly don't think I could find one of such small size, not to mention the danger of damaging the connectors from excessive force.

post #10402 of 13022
I don't understand why people have such a hard time tightening these down. I've put mine on once and haven't had one time that they've come loose. Finger tighten them to the stop. then grab the knurled fitting under the nut and give them a final twist until firm. I've just disconnected and reconnected mine with little effort.

Songmic, since your new cable has covered the knurled fitting with heat shrink, grab the shrink close to the nut and twist. If the nut is tightened to it's housed position, the final fraction of travel can be done to firmly finish the evolution.
Edited by Happy Camper - 11/18/13 at 6:04am
post #10403 of 13022
As for amps it's more complex . I be wrong buts it is not just a ohms law formula

Maybe SE can way in here . A 50 or forty ohm load is not what a typical speaker amp is designed for
As such some do not sound well with these headphones.
Maybe the freq curve is changed with such a high imp.
Audio GD just came out with a new headphone amp/ pre
And he increased his output at 40 ohms to 9 from 7
It could be he needed a new circuit design
All together I emailed him last night reg my m8 and how to
Increase the gain. And I am not dying I know for sure and not claiming
To be a audio amp designer either. I just read enough to say
The he 6 is worse than the hd800 was for amps to gel with with

Al D
post #10404 of 13022
Quote:
Originally Posted by ALRAINBOW View Post

As for amps it's more complex . I be wrong buts it is not just a ohms law formula

Maybe SE can way in here . A 50 or forty ohm load is not what a typical speaker amp is designed for
As such some do not sound well with these headphones.
Maybe the freq curve is changed with such a high imp.
Audio GD just came out with a new headphone amp/ pre
And he increased his output at 40 ohms to 9 from 7
It could be he needed a new circuit design
All together I emailed him last night reg my m8 and how to
Increase the gain. And I am not dying I know for sure and not claiming
To be a audio amp designer either. I just read enough to say
The he 6 is worse than the hd800 was for amps to gel with with

Al D

 

 

I agree with the bold.

post #10405 of 13022
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarsHP View Post

The F1J only puts about 1 Watt max in 50 Ohms, voltage limited. I got this from the maestro himself. According to Ohms law the impedance will determine how much current will be drawn, and 50 Ohm is not a nasty load that calls for a speaker amp.
So this - again - tells me that wattage / ampere is not the primary concern with HE-6.

However, the F1J is supposedly a very clear and transparent amp, but as I said, according to Nelson Pass it's not delivering more than about 1W and thus not more than many high powered headphone amps - actually much less. My Soloist, which has been doubted by some regarding the HE-6 is at about 1.7W, then yields considerably more than the F1J, not to mention my Audio-gd Master 6 which is 7W in 50 Ohms.

What this is more likely about is that the HE-6 has slightly too much treble (and with velour pads also less low end than with stock pleather). Especially the velour pads may give you the impression that it needs more power / current, but in fact it's the frequency response with these pads which is the issue. With pleather pads it's better, but there is still a little too much treble. This can't be fixed with extra power / current IMO. However, it can be fixed with other pads or felt or whatever it takes to absorb some of the excess treble. And subjectively, if you turn up the volume, you experience more low end also which will sound more balanced and you experience more details too.
Who is "the Meistro"? F1 and F1j will do about 6.5 watts into 50 ohms. Ohms law is correct but you're using it wrong if you think it will only do 1 watt into 50 ohms.
post #10406 of 13022
Quote:
Originally Posted by potterma View Post


Who is "the Meistro"? F1 and F1j will do about 6.5 watts into 50 ohms. Ohms law is correct but you're using it wrong if you think it will only do 1 watt into 50 ohms.

 

I think the Meistro is "Papa"

post #10407 of 13022
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkhead View Post

I just looked at the spec of my amp is +/- 40A enough wink_face.gif
Probably! Do you know what the maximum voltage swing is?
post #10408 of 13022
Quote:
Originally Posted by preproman View Post
 

 

Paying to much attention to the Watts again.:blink:  Also Potterma has a different calculation.  

 

Anyways, again, in my experience it's more about the current reserve a amp can maintain.  Speaker amps with the size of their transformers are able to keep more current in reserve when compared to headphone amps.  Yes, some headphone amps can put out mega watts - so what?  They don't have the (current) sustainability that speaker amps have when really complicated music passages calls for it - headphone amps tend to run out of gas - so to speak .  The headphone amps transformers are way to small, some of them even use r-core / c-core transformers.  The transformers in speaker amps are the size of the entire headphone amp at times.  Headphone amps are meant to be designed for a small foot print (most of them) this limits them with the size transformers they are able to use.  Speaker amps don't have this issue.

 

Yes, I refer to Watts, because that's what makes the driver move. Why do you think every speaker amp and headphone amp is rated in power first foremost? The driver/transducer needs both Voltage and Ampere to play = Watts is what counts.

 

As for Potterma's calculation ... I trust the one who designed the amp: Nelson Pass.

 

I respect your experience about current reserve up to a point. Yes, speaker amps has much higher current capabilities, but they are designed to drive a load around 8 Ohms or lower - not around 50 Ohms. That makes a BIG difference if you look at what happens in different loads: the lower the impedance, the higher current is needed. The point you seem unable (or unwilling?) to get is that at 50 Ohms we are talkning about a much, much lower current draw from the amp, than what a speaker amp is designed for with the transformers and the rest of the PSU. This makes it much less needed to actually be able to deliver the current that a speaker amp can output.

 

My speaker amp - 50W @ 8 Ohm in full class A - is able to deliver 300W in 1 Ohm at continuous drive (and 44A in peaks). This is completely waste of current reserve in my experience, when driving a 50 Ohm load. Also the physics says this: at that load you need 50 times less current (calculating from 1 to 50 Ohm).

 

My Burson Soloist weighs about 4 Kilo's and my Audio-gd Master 6 weighs about 12 Kilo. These are not small, lightweight units, but they are pre- and headphone amps nevertheless - and they can play the HE-6 extremely well without any hint showing that the amp is underpowering the headphone - compared to my monster class A speaker amp with two 500VA trafos etc. etc.

 

Yes, the HE-6 is extremely in-sensitive at about 20mW for 90dB, but you don't need a two figure Ampere-capability to drive it. That's a fact. Do the math if you think I am wrong.

post #10409 of 13022
Quote:
Originally Posted by potterma View Post


Who is "the Meistro"? F1 and F1j will do about 6.5 watts into 50 ohms. Ohms law is correct but you're using it wrong if you think it will only do 1 watt into 50 ohms.


Nelson Pass told me this (about 1W in 50 Ohm) when I asked in a email. How du you get your 6.5W in 50 Ohm for the F1J?

post #10410 of 13022
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarsHP View Post
 

Yes, I refer to Watts, because that's what makes the driver move. Why do you think every speaker amp and headphone amp is rated in power first foremost? The driver/transducer needs both Voltage and Ampere to play = Watts is what counts.

 

As for Potterma's calculation ... I trust the one who designed the amp: Nelson Pass.

 

I respect your experience about current reserve up to a point. Yes, speaker amps has much higher current capabilities, but they are designed to drive a load around 8 Ohms or lower - not around 50 Ohms. That makes a BIG difference if you look at what happens in different loads: the lower the impedance, the higher current is needed. The point you seem unable (or unwilling?) to get is that at 50 Ohms we are talkning about a much, much lower current draw from the amp, than what a speaker amp is designed for with the transformers and the rest of the PSU. This makes it much less needed to actually be able to deliver the current that a speaker amp can output.

 

My speaker amp - 50W @ 8 Ohm in full class A - is able to deliver 300W in 1 Ohm at continuous drive (and 44A in peaks). This is completely waste of current reserve in my experience, when driving a 50 Ohm load. Also the physics says this: at that load you need 50 times less current (calculating from 1 to 50 Ohm).

 

My Burson Soloist weighs about 4 Kilo's and my Audio-gd Master 6 weighs about 12 Kilo. These are not small, lightweight units, but they are pre- and headphone amps nevertheless - and they can play the HE-6 extremely well without any hint showing that the amp is underpowering the headphone - compared to my monster class A speaker amp with two 500VA trafos etc. etc.

 

Yes, the HE-6 is extremely in-sensitive at about 20mW for 90dB, but you don't need a two figure Ampere-capability to drive it. That's a fact. Do the math if you think I am wrong.

 

 

I'm sorry, but I fail to see the point you're trying to make.

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