apple lossless - Page 2

Quote:

Originally Posted by EphemeralHope 

I'm actually very curious to this too...  never known this and I've been listening out of my itouch using only MP3s and am wondering if I should rerip it all to AAC to get better playback haha
 

 

If you're going to go through the hassle of re-ripping, rip to FLAC. That way, you'll never have to rip again.

You can always upload your files to your PC/Mac using Apple Lossless and then tell iTunes to upload the music to your portable Apple player in AAC or MP3 format to be able to carry more songs with you.

The first thing you should do is a blind ABX test between lossless and high quality AAC (~192 kB/s ABR or something like q0,5 with Nero VBR), never underestimate how biased the human hearing is towards expectations. If you can actually hear a difference, then think about getting a new DAP with  more space.

But I expect that you won't be able to tell the AAC file from the lossless one.

I have an 8 gig itouch and use lossless. I have found that the more the bit rate is reduced the more emotion is missing from the music.

I think also it might depend on what music you listen to! If you are listening to heavily compressed, over produced pop then I think indeed it will make little difference (I found this to be so with Eminem)!

But if you listen to full scale orchestral. Opera, chamber or folk or acustic music that has been well recorded then you most certainly will hear a sizable difference in bit rates.

I tried our town by Iris DeMent as an experiment, recorded at 256 and at lossless.The details are still there on both recordings but something far more important was not..The emotion. I am not a techie but there was an obvious loss in emotion and feel on the recording (and on this recording in particular that is very important!)

I tried the same thing on a movement from Wagners Parsifal. At 256 the music felt congested and lacking emotion. at lossless it was full scale (I also listened to the CD's and found lossless very close to the cd)

For me music is about emotion and feeling first, absolute detail second and lossless provides that for me. I have also heard flac and found it to be very similar!

Equipment used was itouch, ipod Classic (latest generation), Stax SR001MK2 and AKG K701 through Gary's PA2V2. I have tried more expensive amps but have yet to be convinced of their merits above the performance of Gary's little Amp..I would like to try the TTVJ hybrid millet tho'!

Quote:

Originally Posted by ianmedium 
I also listened to the CD's and found lossless very close to the cd

If you hear a difference between the lossless files and the CD, then you're definitely being fooled by your perception. You should try an ABX test.

Hmm, you have given me food for thought! I have know idea what an abx test is though if you can explain please!

What I do notice between CD and lossless is that for me anyway lossless sounds a little richer which I like.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ianmedium 

Hmm, you have given me food for thought! I have know idea what an abx test is though if you can explain please!

 

What I do notice between CD and lossless is that for me anyway lossless sounds a little richer which I like.

Wow.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMaestro335 

With good over the head, headphones and amp, App Lossless is night and day over normal apple formats!

Portable sources don't offer the fidelity (even Rockboxed) to tell the difference between ~192kbps AAC and lossless.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ianmedium 

Hmm, you have given me food for thought! I have know idea what an abx test is though if you can explain please!

 

What I do notice between CD and lossless is that for me anyway lossless sounds a little richer which I like.

You realise both are the same right? Just difference compression algorithms CDDA vs. FLAC / ALAC /WAV / AIFF etc.......

Quote:

Originally Posted by ianmedium 

Hmm, you have given me food for thought! I have know idea what an abx test is though if you can explain please!

 

What I do notice between CD and lossless is that for me anyway lossless sounds a little richer which I like.

The best way to test lossless and CD is to output your CD and lossless through the same DAC.  If you are listening through different equipment it's apples to oranges.

In my listening tests I get a digital out from my CD player into my DAC and compare that with the output from my iPod through a Wadia i170 which sends a digital signal to my DAC; the point being that from the DAC downstream it's the same system.  The only difference is where the digital signal to the DAC is coming from.

I think if you can get that far, you'll find the music is the same.

Stereophile mag did a recording test where they compared the digital output of a CD against the digital output of Apple lossless and the two copies were bit perfect.
 

Yes I do  but I can only report what my ears hear. I think this is an important point. I am 46, my hearing won't be as pin sharp as say someone around 20. My hearing is good but age is a factor!

It is interesting though as part of my work is in the recording industry and I have worked with all age ranges within that industry. I am often asked to listen to masters to pick discrepancies out and a few others I know who do the same are around my age. I have often wondered if my hearing is accurate enough..But then again, clients I work for both young and old keep employing me so I guess it can't be too bad!

I remember a hifi magazine a few years ago doing an experiment. The ripped a CD and then burned a copy of that CD. They then tested them head to head and found what I have found with lossless compared to CD, a smoother sound that is much more pleasing to the ear.

In the end I think this is an area with a great many variables outside of the cold hard measurable facts!

How could a lossless file sound better than the CD from which it is ripped? The whole point is that it sounds the same.

Maybe your ears just have a preference for whatever source you're listening to the files on.

There are technical reasons why a ripped file may sound better than the original CD file, but if a person can actually hear those differences is another problem. One is jitter of the CD player, another is that the CD player and the lossless file are probably not using the same hardware. Apart from that, if there is any difference, it is a fault of the Lossless file. 

The best simple test I can think of is to rip a CD to WAV and FLAC/ALAC/any lossless codec and listento both on the same PC/DAP. If the lossless version indeed sounds "smoother", then you are probably fooled by your brain.

ABX (or ABXY) means that you can hear four streams: A, B, X and Y. A is your source file and B is your compressed file. X and Y are also the source and compressed file, but you don't know which is which. You can listen to these four streams and need to decide whether "A is X and B is Y" or "A is Y and B is X". Very simple but very effective. Since you don't know which file is which you are guaranteed to get an unbiased result. It's the only true way to test a codec.

The easiest way to do it is foobar2000 with the official ABX Comparator plugin.

But the thing is that the WAV isn't the same as the CD. It should be, but played back, any number of lossless files could be better in comparison to cheap CD players. While I doubt most or any ears would hear the differences, slight problems because of off-kilter playback will reveal differences. The information is the same, the playback, however, isn't.