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Hifiman HM-801 RMAA Tests - Page 5  

post #61 of 795

Why don't we start posting graphs from all the CD players and sources with a flat FR in the audible range?  Stereophile has enough of them!  How about the professional audio equipment that is used to record the music we love?  Professional audio equipment is designed to be "flat."  If it isn't the manufacturer will tell you, or it is some equipment that is designed to change the FR.

 

Providing graphs of "High End" CD players with rolloffs in the audible range only provides me of evidence of one thing - that some high priced eqiupment is not made properly or has been specifically designed to change the sound.  The goal of audio equipment is, typically, to transmit a signal in a transparent manner.  There is some equipment is that designed to specifically change the FR like an EQ, but then I know the changes are there or I make the changes to my liking.

 

Nankai - Rather than coming here and defending this, why don't you ask HiFiman to address this?  Even a $20 Cmoy has a flat FR.  Then you won't have to defend the product to anybody.

 

 

 

 

 

post #62 of 795

Did WADIA, NAIM, Simaudio, etc, address anything about "high freq roll off"? In my opinion,  making so called "flat plot" is a typical lazy way of making audio, esp. source and speaker/headphones. Do you really believe "flat plot on RMAA" means you can 100% reproduce real music? Human auditory system is not flat to different freq sound. 100% Flat plot means 100% not hifi, esp. when talking about headphones.


Edited by Nankai - 5/7/10 at 9:19pm
post #63 of 795
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nankai View Post

Did WADIA, NAIM, Simaudio, etc, address anything about "high freq roll off"? In my opinion,  making so called "flat plot" is a typical lazy way of making hifi grade audio products. Do you really believe "flat plot on RMAA" means you can 100% reproduct real music? 100% Flat curve means 100% not real.


Are you serious?  There are plenty of professional audio engineers who strive to make the FR as flat as possible! Why don't you visit AMB LABS and look at the specifications of their amps, DACS, etc?  Look at the measurements.  The FR is FLAT! Are you trying to say people like AMB are lazy?


Edited by odigg - 5/7/10 at 8:27pm
post #64 of 795

Amp is a different story when comparing to source or speaker/headphones. Amp need to amplify signal without any distortion, include freq distortion. If you measure any source and speaker/headphones, you will understand what I mentioned.


Edited by Nankai - 5/7/10 at 8:38pm
post #65 of 795

A flat frequency response is the norm, so there's no need to post corresponding graphs. The only question is if a deviation of the kind at hand is necessarily coupled with a severe loss of sound quality. As the Wadia example shows, that's not the case. Also note that the design philosophy behind Wadia's treble roll-off has nothing to do with being «not made properly» or «specifically designed to change the sound» – it's an individual attempt to circumvent the shortcomings of the Redbook CD format. You may like it or not. It certainly has its sonic consequences, but not in terms of perceived quality.

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post #66 of 795

You've got to be kidding me!

I really really wonder why everybody in the industry is trying to meet a 20Hz-20khz +/- 0.5 db line, from a CD player to an amplifier ending with a speaker (anachoic)...

WOW!!!!!!!


Edited by Ro-amp - 5/7/10 at 10:08pm
post #67 of 795
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ro-amp View Post

You've got to be kidding me!

I really really wonder why everybody in the industry is trying to meet a 20Hz-20khz +/- 0.5 db line, from a CD player to an amplifier ending with a speaker (anechoic)...

 

No kidding involved. Frequency response it just one parameter for accurate music reproduction. There are others, such as harmonic distortion and transient response. The steep antialiasing filter which the CD format calls for poses massive problems for transient reproduction. There are several ways to overcome the problem, and the Spline filter is one of them.

 

However, personally I would probably give up on a device with –1.45 dB at 10 kHz and –4.5 dB at 20 kHz, the more so if it's not clearly displayed as a consequence of a sonic philosophy. A drop-off of this level is audible as such and actually unnecessary for a possible transient-response improvement à la Wadia. It may still match well with a range of headphones, though, and it's the final total transfer function that counts, not the one of a single component. But a drop-off like this is a rather bad precondition for relative neutrality with a wide range of sound transducers, even though the concerned frequency range isn't of primary importance. Perfectionists will most likely not be happy with a device like this. But it definitely can sound good nonetheless, at least with some headphones. Even more so if it shines with other quality criteria.
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post #68 of 795

I honestly can’t say I’m surprised by the fanboys defending their hefty investment but throwing stones and lashing out at the messenger won’t make the truth disappear :p


I for one can’t wait to read the full review and I know that dfkt won’t hold back any punches where honesty is concerned.
 

post #69 of 795

I hope for the hifiman's sake a new amplifier module is designed to remedy this.

 

As far as "intentional" attenuation or coloration goes, I'd prefer to have every component in my audio chain have a relatively flat response. Speakers/headphones have more than enough coloration and variation for me to get the sound I want.

 

Thanks for the measurements dfkt, they are much appreciated.

post #70 of 795
Quote:
Originally Posted by WalkGood View Post

I honestly can’t say I’m surprised by the fanboys defending their hefty investment but throwing stones and lashing out at the messenger won’t make the truth disappear :p


I for one can’t wait to read the full review and I know that dfkt won’t hold back any punches where honesty is concerned.
 


This will nevertheless be just one person's perception and opinion.

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post #71 of 795
Quote:
Originally Posted by Punnisher View Post

I hope for the hifiman's sake a new amplifier module is designed to remedy this.

 

As far as "intentional" attenuation or coloration goes, I'd prefer to have every component in my audio chain have a relatively flat response. Speakers/headphones have more than enough coloration and variation for me to get the sound I want.

 

Thanks for the measurements dfkt, they are much appreciated.


An amplifier to 'remedy' a source?  Cart before the Horse perhaps?  JaZZ makes an excellent point about CD redbook.  From an audiophile standpoint CD redbook is not in the same league as any analogue signal like a vinyl LP as a source.  Since we are throwing stones in glass audiophile houses just thought I'd bring in my bulldozer!  

mail

post #72 of 795

I guess that would depend on where the attenuation is taking place, so you have a good point.

post #73 of 795

mailanglemail


Edited by momomo6789 - 5/8/10 at 12:12am
post #74 of 795

post #75 of 795


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Punnisher View Post

I hope for the hifiman's sake a new amplifier module is designed to remedy this.

 

As far as "intentional" attenuation or coloration goes, I'd prefer to have every component in my audio chain have a relatively flat response. Speakers/headphones have more than enough coloration and variation for me to get the sound I want.

 

Thanks for the measurements dfkt, they are much appreciated.

+1

No wonder everybody is confused....

Please let me color my world with speakers & headphones...

And HRTF software...
 


Edited by Ro-amp - 5/8/10 at 12:34am
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