Does a player exist with HiFiMan quality without the built-in amp?

s:flo2/T51. Amazing players in the 150 price range. The UI could use a little work and the battery life with FLAC is only around 8 hours but it has AMAZING sound quality AND a true line out port.

You should definitely put it on your radar. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Young Spade 

s:flo2/T51. Amazing players in the 150 price range. The UI could use a little work and the battery life with FLAC is only around 8 hours but it has AMAZING sound quality AND a true line out port.

 

You should definitely put it on your radar. 

+1

+

Or if you don't mind going for older players - the Kenwood HD series. But these might be difficult to come by and they are still expensive. Here in Japan a used HD30GB9 in good condition can cost over $300!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockford 

+

 

Only w/ a balanced armature IME, and still not an SFlo2 w/ line-out.

Keep in mind to the OP none of these recommendations will have the superb sound quality of the HiFiMAN but they still sound good nonetheless.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danneq 

Or if you don't mind going for older players - the Kenwood HD series. But these might be difficult to come by and they are still expensive. Here in Japan a used HD30GB9 in good condition can cost over $300!

If I read correctly, the Kenwood seems to have serious hissing issue...Do you own one @Danneq? Just wonder if the hiss in Kenwood's player is actually that bad.

I have read that the older Kenwood HD players can have hiss with more sensitive earphones, especially IEM:s. I am looking though old threads right now and the hiss issue seems to mostly be at lower volumes.

Hiss thread #1

Hiss thread #2

I have just bought a HD20GA7 on Japanese yahoo auction, but I am not in possession of it yet. The seller sent it today and it should arrive on Monday or Tuesday. I will upload some albums on it and try it out.

Apparently the hiss was reduced on players that came after the HD20GA7, such as the HD30GB9 and HD60GD9, but it never disappeared.

I still am nostalgic when it comes to the old cassette walkman days, so I might not be bothered much by the hiss...

S-Flo, Hifiman... f.o.t.m.

Clip - fully established and loved for years and now even better with the + version.

ok, were gonna be clear here,

the hifiman started as a good idea, but fanboy ambition killed it, using a dac from 1998 out of some weird nostalgia of the type that makes some people keep a victorola around, its nice and warm to listen to, but its not the quality were looking for,  the whole amp module, would have been a better idea to have a external amp plug in socket insted and have it wear the amp as a "jacket", aswell as adding a normal or optical line out to use the amp of choice, they went with a lacking half written proprietary system when all they had to do is grab one of those nice premade DSP´s and port rockbox to it, its overcomplicated, overengnieered and the design just gives in to fanboy whining insted of proper engnieering,

it breaks the second rule of engineering which is "simplicity works, only complicate things when absolutly necesary", the first rule being "if its not broken..."

now, a good dap for under 150 bucks?, i would say get a clip+, rock box it, and you still have left over cash for a semi decent external amp, an SD card or to spend a bit more on your headphones,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockford 

No it isn't an sflo2 which is a cheaply built chinese beast with crappy firmware and "DUAL WOLFSON DACS" which is the exact same thing as having only ONE.

 

It's a device marketed to the most gullible demographic in the audio market, the audiophiles.

I'm gonna try not to flame you but you don't have any idea what your talking about, try not to spout out this type of ignorant ranting without at least reading some  reviews and doing a bit of research, quite obvious you have not heard and or touched an SFLO:2.

The hype has been completely user driven based on people like me that actually bought the player and tried it out. This player was pretty obscure and not much hype when it came out. Had it not been a good audio player it would have been swept under the rug and no one would be talking  about it.

I have experience with a v2 Fuze I owned and ended up just giving to a friend at work and it's SQ simply does not compare to the SFLO:2.

I'm seeing a lot of CLIP+/ Fuse HYPE here lately, just because a player is cheap and sounds better than it's price doesn't make it the best sounding player around, I thought the fuse sounded decent but it was not the world beater alot of people are making it out to be and didn't even  sound better then my Zune30 I was using as my main player at the time.

People are seriously trumping these sansa players as god stomping world beaters but the  truth is they sound good for there price but there is nothing magical about them and there are better sounding players out there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockford 

No it isn't an sflo2 which is a cheaply built chinese beast with crappy firmware and "DUAL WOLFSON DACS" which is the exact same thing as having only ONE.

 

It's a device marketed to the most gullible demographic in the audio market, the audiophiles.

Quote:

Originally Posted by usf09 

Have to ask, have you tried both? This isn't a flame at all, but if you have tried both and can give a real comparison, that'd be more helpful. I think everyone here knows the Clip+/Rockbox is very good, but the s:flo2 also gets a lot of attention, it can't all be hype...

I have both and the s:flo2 beats the Clip+ in sound quality to my ears. Using both the HO and the LO (T51 only), the clip just can't hold up to the quality of sound that the T51 has. HO wise (which I'm only going to refer to here since the Clip doesn't have one), the sflo2 has a wider stage, more power, and just sounds better. The bass is punchier, it's more detailed, and the mids have more weight and make the music sound fuller. (This is with both players running un-eq'd). 

With the line out to the ALO Rx (clip HO out Rx), the gap between the players just gets wider. Music sounds miles better on the T51 amped than the Clip with my UM3Xs. This is with using the same songs on a flat setting on both players.

Quote:

Originally Posted by swanlee 

I'm gonna try not to flame you but you don't have any idea what your talking about, try not to spout out this type of ignorant ranting without at least reading some  reviews and doing a bit of research, quite obvious you have not heard and or touched an SFLO:2.

 

The hype has been completely user driven based on people like me that actually bought the player and tried it out. This player was pretty obscure and not much hype when it came out. Had it not been a good audio player it would have been swept under the rug and no one would be talking  about it.

 

I have experience with a v2 Fuze I owned and ended up just giving to a friend at work and it's SQ simply does not compare to the SFLO:2.

 

I'm seeing a lot of CLIP+/ Fuse HYPE here lately, just because a player is cheap and sounds better than it's price doesn't make it the best sounding player around, I thought the fuse sounded decent but it was not the world beater alot of people are making it out to be and didn't even  sound better then my Zune30 I was using as my main player at the time.

 

People are seriously trumping these sansa players as god stomping world beaters but the  truth is they sound good for there price but there is nothing magical about them and there are better sounding players out there.

I agree. With just reading a lot of hype like this I can see where it would be easy to attribute it all to FOTM issues or whatever, but IMO unless you have tried the player you shouldn't hold any opinion to it (or any piece of equipment for that matter). I don't have a problem with people stating that they just heard what they're saying from word of mouth from other members, but until you have it in your hands and can directly A/B it with something else, you shouldn't speak negatively (or positively) about that piece of equipment.

I actually got the Clip+ after getting the T51 because it is known to have great SQ (but mostly for when the T51 battery dies on me). When directly comparing using the same phones/amp, and songs, the clip just can't keep up. I'm using all FLAC files (Classical and Acoustic so no artificial sounds here) with custom interconnects to an ALO Rx (burned in) to some UM3Xs with silicon tips.

Both players are very detailed and IMO worth every buck I spent on them, but the Clip just doesn't carry the depth of soundstage/separation that the T51 has. Classical and acoustic music just sounds better out of the T51. 

But that's just me. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aevum 

ok, were gonna be clear here,

 

the hifiman started as a good idea, but fanboy ambition killed it, using a dac from 1998 out of some weird nostalgia of the type that makes some people keep a victorola around, its nice and warm to listen to, but its not the quality were looking for,  the whole amp module, would have been a better idea to have a external amp plug in socket insted and have it wear the amp as a "jacket", aswell as adding a normal or optical line out to use the amp of choice, they went with a lacking half written proprietary system when all they had to do is grab one of those nice premade DSP´s and port rockbox to it, its overcomplicated, overengnieered and the design just gives in to fanboy whining insted of proper engnieering,

 

it breaks the second rule of engineering which is "simplicity works, only complicate things when absolutly necesary", the first rule being "if its not broken..."

 

now, a good dap for under 150 bucks?, i would say get a clip+, rock box it, and you still have left over cash for a semi decent external amp, an SD card or to spend a bit more on your headphones,

So...I'm guessing you haven't heard the HiFiMAN?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Young Spade 

Wow man that's a little over the top, sorry to see you feel that way about the player. Have you heard it though? I'm not trying to prove you wrong here, just wanting to know why you come to these conclusions and I'm probably going to end up purchasing it in the future. 

He hasn't heard it, lol. When you do get your HiFiMAN you won't regret the purchase. You'll immediately be shocked by how much better music can sound.