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Clip+'s Normal EQ is not flat? - Page 2

post #16 of 105

I have a clip+ and the EQ is not "broken." Some people just aren't capable of understanding that "Normal" not set for flat. "Normal" is just Sansa's word for one of their presets. That's all it means. It doesn't mean "flat."

post #17 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by ventilator View Post

I have a clip+ and the EQ is not "broken." Some people just aren't capable of understanding that "Normal" not set for flat. "Normal" is just Sansa's word for one of their presets. That's all it means. It doesn't mean "flat."



Wow, not only is your first post rude, it's totally incorrect.

post #18 of 105

Actually, it seems that you are the rude one for calling me "incorrect" when I am correct. And besides that, you did not even provide any justification for your wrong opinion. So that is doubly rude.

 

OP: The Sansa "Normal" EQ setting is set for +4 for every value. It's not set for flat. If the EQ is set for "Normal" (which really means +4 for every one) and you change any band by even one click, it drops down to flat, plus or minus that one click.

 

So if you can imagine going from +4 +4 +4 +4 +4 to, for example, 0 0 0 0 -1 with just one click, you can then probably imagine why it sounds so different all of a sudden.

 

Please ignore this "Max F" and the people who say the clip EQ is "broken," they don't know what they're talking about. Cheers.

post #19 of 105

Well, as long as nothing's clipping it doesn't really matter if it's all the way +max, +4 or 0. In that sense it is a "flat" eq curve.

post #20 of 105

well not exactly, because it's boosting the dBs. But yes in the sense that It's flat, but just not flat at 0.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by xnor View Post

Well, as long as nothing's clipping it doesn't really matter if it's all the way +max, +4 or 0. In that sense it is a "flat" eq curve.


 

post #21 of 105

well not exactly, because it's boosting the dBs. But yes in the sense that it's flat, only not at zero.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by xnor View Post

Well, as long as nothing's clipping it doesn't really matter if it's all the way +max, +4 or 0. In that sense it is a "flat" eq curve.

post #22 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by xnor View Post

Well, as long as nothing's clipping it doesn't really matter if it's all the way +max, +4 or 0. In that sense it is a "flat" eq curve.


So THAT is where the Clip got it's name from? 

 

Actually, I noticed the same thing on my Creative Zen Vision M - when I switch to custom EQ I have to raise all bars to about +4 for it to sound like EQ off.

post #23 of 105

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JaZZ View Post

Hi Mark

No, not yet. I think I will wait for a stable version. And for now I'm waiting for a SanDisk 32-GB microSDHC card. Should be available early June.

I'm by no means a Rockbox fanboy so please don't interpret my comment as bias.

I've been running Rockbox on the new Clip+ with microSD card for the past week now, not one single problem.

And as setmenu pointed out, you always have the option of booting up in the original firmware.

 

I think it's worth giving it a go... ;)

post #24 of 105
Thread Starter 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ventilator View Post

well not exactly, because it's boosting the dBs. But yes in the sense that it's flat, only not at zero.

 

Quote:

So it's kind of like turning the volume higher, then? Boosting the dB?
 

post #25 of 105

that's what all EQ does. ;-)
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sadhanaputra View Post

So it's kind of like turning the volume higher, then? Boosting the dB?
 

post #26 of 105



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ventilator View Post

OP: The Sansa "Normal" EQ setting is set for +4 for every value. It's not set for flat. If the EQ is set for "Normal" (which really means +4 for every one) and you change any band by even one click, it drops down to flat, plus or minus that one click.

 

So if you can imagine going from +4 +4 +4 +4 +4 to, for example, 0 0 0 0 -1 with just one click, you can then probably imagine why it sounds so different all of a sudden.

 

Please ignore this "Max F" and the people who say the clip EQ is "broken," they don't know what they're talking about. Cheers. 

 


 

It's not boosted by +4.  You can't do that to a digital signal that maxed out already (i.e., modern recordings) or you would get clipping distortion.   When you use the EQ (i.e, you select any of the dials beyond the flat range), the firware automatically drops the output by -4db to add headroom. 

 

Normal = Flat

 

If you hear different then you are fooling yourself.  The EQ actually attenuates to avoid clipping.  Google it if you don't believe me.


 


Edited by Max F - 5/24/10 at 6:29am
post #27 of 105

MaxF is right

 

Whenever you activate the custom EQ by changing one of the bands from the original position, the player does a precut across all the frequencies. This is to prevent clipping when a band is boosted too high.

 

If all the bands are boosted by a notch and the volume increased by a bit, you'll notice that it'll sound exactly like the "normal" EQ.

 

Anyway, rockbox is pretty stable at the moment. Ive used the recent build for about a week already with no problems at all.

post #28 of 105

The sound when all the EQ sliders are set at +4 (some people report +5) is exactly the same as when the EQ is set to the "Normal" setting. Therefore, the "Normal" setting is the same thing as all sliders set at +4 or 5. That's basic common sense.

 

The "rock" or "jazz" or "pop" presets all mean the sliders are set at certain levels, and the "normal" preset is no different. They could have called it "warm" or "boost" or whatever else they wanted, but they called it "Normal." "Normal" is Sansa-speak for "all sliders at +4," just like "jazz" "rock" etc. are Sansa-speak for the sliders being preset in other ways.

 

When you are on the "Normal" preset and you raise or lower one of the sliders, the EQ doesn't start from all the sliders at +4 and then go to all the sliders at +4 except the one you raised or lowered, it automatically resets ALL sliders to ZERO, and then goes up or down one notch for the slider you adjusted. That's why there's a dramatic sound drop when you go from "Normal" to pressing one of the sliders up or down.

 

Saying you can't set the sliders to +4 is absurd. Mine go to plus or minus 12, and I think if anyone goes into their EQ settings, they will see that theirs go from 0 (flat) to +/-12 also.

 

Hope that helps.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Max F View Post



 


 

It's not boosted by +4.  You can't do that to a digital signal that maxed out already (i.e., modern recordings) or you would get clipping distortion.   When you use the EQ (i.e, you select any of the dials beyond the flat range), the firware automatically drops the output by -4db to add headroom. 

 

Normal = Flat

 

If you hear different then you are fooling yourself.  The EQ actually attenuates to avoid clipping.  Google it if you don't believe me.


 


 


Edited by ventilator - 5/24/10 at 9:00am
post #29 of 105

Normal = Flat = +4+4+4+4+4 (w/ an overall gain at -4 db or somwhere thereabouts)

 

Here I googled it for you:

 

http://www.anythingbutipod.com/forum/showthread.php?t=54279

 

You can also pm dfkt if you want.  I think he built a LOD for the Fuze and he's commented on the EQ in the past.


Edited by Max F - 5/24/10 at 9:44am
post #30 of 105

If it's all boosted to +4, then it's not "flat." Part of what "flat EQ" means is no increased dB boost, and no change in tone, i.e,. neutral. Normal is "flat" only in the same way +12 across the board would be, but it's not a "flat EQ" in the actual meaning of the word, which is no artificially boosted frequencies.

 

Otherwise you are just playing with semantics. The fact remains that the "Normal" setting on the sansa players entails an artificial boost to all the frequencies across the board, to +4 or +5,  not a zero or true flat EQ.
 

Here I googled it for you, and for anyone else who is being confused by your nonsense:

 

[quote]

Q: What does FLAT EQ mean exactly?

What does a FLAT EQ response mean exactly, in laymens terms and technical description?Cheers

 

A: Flat equalisation - it means no change in tone. If you looked at a graphic equaliser, the settings would all lie in a flat mid line.

Each setting represents the increase or decrease at a set frequency, from a few tens of Hz at one end to tens of kHz at the other. Sometimes its pleasant to lift up some frequencies so they sound louder, or reduce others. e.g. to reduce high frequency "hiss", or enhance low frequency drum beats. Whoever produced the music recording had a certain idea of what they wanted the various instruments to sound like, but you can choose to alter this to suit where you are playing it. e.g. in a hall, or a car, on headphones etc.
Media Player has a control like this too.

 

A: Say you have a 7 band EQ and ALL sliders are on zero. That's flat.

 

http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071007123349AAClius

[/quote]

 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Max F View Post

Normal = Flat = +4+4+4+4+4 (w/ an overall gain at -4 db or somwhere thereabouts)

 

Here I googled it for you:

 

http://www.anythingbutipod.com/forum/s Flat meanshowthread.php?t=54279

 

You can also pm dfkt if you want.  I think he built a LOD for the Fuze and he's commented on the EQ in the past.


 

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